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Air 2 Air M90 Intercooler Adapter Plate

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Merlin said:
the air coming into the (in my case) turbo would be hotter than the air going into the tb because of the water to air intercooler.
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This is true if you have a W2A I/C


The W2A I/C is in between the turbo and TB.
 


TDCRacing said:
This is true if you have a W2A I/C


The W2A I/C is in between the turbo and TB.
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Wherever the turbo is pulling its air, the air reaching the TB won't be any cooler than the ambient air temperature of the air that's going through the FMHE.

To say otherwise is violating one of the first laws they teach you about thermal dynamics.
 
Ok, since I seem to have a Thermodynamic textbook in front of me and clearly dont understand what im reading, please tell me what you would call it when the ambient air temperature is 80* and the air entering the throttle body is 60*

(80/60)*100 = 134% eff.

Unless Im missing something?
 
Merlin said:
Ok, since I seem to have a Thermodynamic textbook in front of me and clearly dont understand what im reading, please tell me what you would call it when the ambient air temperature is 80* and the air entering the throttle body is 60*

(80/60)*100 = 134% eff.

Unless Im missing something?
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First of all, dividing arbitrary fahrenheit values doesn't deliver you the efficiency. An intercooler is nothing more than a heat pump. Heat pumps are not measured by a simple efficiency rating; they are measured by their coefficient of performance. You can't apply efficiency to it since that's a measure of work put in (including energy absorbed by the pump) and energy output. That doesn't tell you much about a heat pump's capability. If you want to measure a heat pump's capability, you would this formula:

fbca1cb1a746b5219d112695c42080c7.png


Second of all, what you just offered as an example isn't possible without a phase change cooling system. For whatever reason you think the laws of physics don't apply to your engine, good for you. If you have some sensors telling you this, I would suggest you check their accuracy. It's a violation of the second law of thermodynamics, which at it's simplest states:

"Heat generally cannot spontaneously flow from a material at lower temperature to a material at higher temperature."

In order to achieve what you just said, heat would have to be transferred from a cooler medium to a warmer medium which is obviously in violation of the above law. As the air is cooled, it would reach the same temperature as the ambient air (80* in your example). At this point they're the same temperature and no more heat transfer will happen. So there's no way for the intake air charge to get lower than the ambient air. Otherwise it would be heated by the FMHE instead of being cooled.

This is all assuming a non-phase change system. If you incorporate phase change into the design, then it is possible but only because you're using the properties of a fluid to cool as it drops in pressure and changes phase from a liquid to a gas.
 
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you are right, they are heatpumps. The heatpump system in the a/a merely tries to remove heat using a medium with a lesser enthalpy value compared to a w/a. No, the w/a intercooler is not 100% efficient, but its effects on the intake/output of the air, ambient vs intake, is compared to an a/a.


I see what you are thinking, and it is not in the same frame of reference I am.
 


Woah! Nice Thermo lesson!

I can't afford to be experimentally interested in an A-A I/C, but I would love to see one developed and possibly try one somewhere down the road. As long as it works, it would be nice to have something different as an option.
 
Merlin said:
you are right, they are heatpumps. The heatpump system in the a/a merely tries to remove heat using a medium with a lesser enthalpy value compared to a w/a. No, the w/a intercooler is not 100% efficient, but its effects on the intake/output of the air, ambient vs intake, is compared to an a/a.


I see what you are thinking, and it is not in the same frame of reference I am.
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I see what you're saying now. Comparing values between the two and using that as a reference for efficiency. Gotcha. ;)
 
i wasnt asking you to fund the project, i was just wondering if anyone would be interested if i developed a core for the fwd l67 and made them for sale.... i think ill look into this anyways and post pics....

Logan
 
minichopper6hp said:
i wasnt asking you to fund the project, i was just wondering if anyone would be interested if i developed a core for the fwd l67 and made them for sale.... i think ill look into this anyways and post pics....

Logan
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I think its too custom for most people, It can be done, but you might have to develop a whole kit with pipes and IC, can be costly for you after that. A good start would be to check the supercoupes forum for their thoughts on phenolic, may be more of a market for them there.
 
i thought most people on this forum were mechanically inclined, or at least id like to think so... if you can install a w2a system you should be able to run some piping....

Logan
 


where does a pump resivior come into play on a w2a?? i know guys that add ice to there water and say its good for 15-20hp on the dyno. thought that was kinda nifty.
 
I would love to see an a/a intercooler, but im not sure how you would make it out of phelonic, do yo uplan on amking it in a few pieces?

you could go and take the neck design off of the front of the fit plate and replicate it on the back, having both of the inlet an outlet facing forward.

drop the pipes towards the front and run the intercooler that way. it would be shorter than the fit setup on the ecotec engines.
 


Bio248 said:
putting the piping together would be easier than mounting a nice front mount intercooler.
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My thinking was that you would be running out of room to run the piping to the plate, the ford a/a ic plate looks like you would have to run a pipe around the tb/intake and on the other side looks like you woul have to relocate the coil packs and away from the s/c belt. A/W have it easy because you can just run hoses and flex them to where you need them to fit and also make it fit between the s/c belts.
 
blowfishRus6 said:
well i was wondering if it was before or after the HE, if it were after then you could get water colder then out side temps
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If the water sitting in the reservoir were cold, then yes. But after the system ran for a few minutes this would no longer be true. Most cooling systems that have a reservoir are setup so the pump pulls from the reservoir, then it goes to your radiator, then to the load (whatever it is you're cooling) and then back to the reservoir.
 
FoSHO99 said:
My thinking was that you would be running out of room to run the piping to the plate, the ford a/a ic plate looks like you would have to run a pipe around the tb/intake and on the other side looks like you woul have to relocate the coil packs and away from the s/c belt. A/W have it easy because you can just run hoses and flex them to where you need them to fit and also make it fit between the s/c belts.
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why does it have to go around things? if he is making the core he should design it so that you dont have to go through or around anything big. i also dont have a giant intake to avoid like 4/5 of you guys do.
 
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