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Fram oil filters - crap or not??

Re: If you really want to learn about filters

Did anyone follow that? About all I got out of that is that you are still pissed and something about beer. Perhaps you already drank it all...

If you are so sure for yourself that fram filters are no good, you should have done your research BEFORE picking the filter used on your baby.
 


Re: If you really want to learn about filters

Sold Honda Bought Hondo said:
The "Man from Fram"
I was wondering what happened to you....Last i remember you had posted something to the effect that i had made some kind of mistake and you were
sounding all triumphant....like you actually proved something and that somehow vindicated the company i guess that pays your salary?

You must be some kind of engineer? I know the pics i provided were decent
shots....especially for me:o.......But to be so sure of yourself....and yet you
have never actually held the failed part in your hand.....
Why?....Is it because you know exactly what it doesn't look like? Because you have never seen a failure like that....at least 100 times? Or maybe even more?

Man dude, what have you been drinking? I clearly stated that your filter collapsed because you have blocked off the filter bypass valve and if you WANT to do that old school mod, you NEED to be running a racing filter. Who cares what brand of racing filter you run, they all have bypass valves in them because of this type of situation. And, Mercury Marine DOES NOT block off the bypass valve. I am a engineer and 30 year ASE master tech. And you are? You been cooking the the havasu sun for too long dude.

I have come up with 2 other people with first hand experience
of a fram oil filter comparable to mine....In town!....less than 15 miles end to end...less than 50k people..
Really? They also made the same stupid mistake as you? Blocked off the bypass and then ran an inexpensive pass car filter on a performance boat or car?
...so if every person in this town used a fram oil filter it has a failure rate of about 1 in 170,000.....About the same as on in every 20,000 engine GM installs in a car has a catastrophic failure over some silly azz rod bolts that managed to slip past the sleeper who (says he does) quality control........

Now you are Mr Know It All?

I know of a way you could prove your point...maybe even get a raise...if by some chance i am unable to duplicate the failure....

Load up some cash...no checks...cash...$2200 out to cover it...We trip down to the local auto parts and buy one of them fram filters....whoops, never mind...finding a fram oil filter in havazoo might be a problem....i have been to all 6 stores...along with my story...and pics... Ok..parker...30 miles south...on the Rez.....drag that puppy back here....i'll even buy some fresh oil...Maybe some brad pens....Hun for an oil change....every 10 hrs. run time....
And i'll bet, before it's time for fresh oil, it will need some fresh crank and fresh brngs too.....caused by some kind of internal failure in that thing from fram....you can even hang for some seat time in the boat while i race through the channel and use the no-wake buoys as turn markers....8 miles up to the sand bar for pasties and beer..(ya..pasties..not pastries:th_laugh-lol3:)
By then the water bee all choppy...so "racing' will be limited to 5 second blasts and a lot of hold on or pitch out....

I can do it!....motor is essentially same set-up....and i'm not calling the filter a product of crummy Q/C.... I'm calling it junk materials and a poor design.....and a manufacture who will only rectify the situation after it affects profits....i guess that makes corporate sense...this has been going on for maybe 8 years....and they have yet to spend any money on filter related engine failures....somebody looses a motor with 100k miles....'it was worn out anyway".....nobody wants to spend the time taking a run at corporate lawyers...to some guy makin 100k a year....couple 3 grand for a motor is just lunch money....and i guess the people who have cars with
EXPENSIVE motors don't bother with wally world oil filters...and i know Merc Racing ain't spinning no fram funk on their new 1350.....1350 lbs. torque...about the same hp....in a production boat..with a freekin warranty.....500-1000 miles....making 1350 the entire time....hammer down...30lbs boost 6000+ rpm....zero failures.....each motor already has a full hour on the dyno...doing that exact same thing....Good old American
ingenuity......And real American pride in the products they produce:th_winking:

Ok...rant over...have a great thursday.....i'm gona wait by the phone all day....waiting for the man from fram to call:th_jester:

Ya...i have a snorkel....cause i know better than to try and hold my breath
waiting for never to get here...just hoping for the same wait when BO re-runs for his job again...hey...maybe fram will hire him....he can bail them out when profits crash because 2700 people sued them....class action suit...they have to return every dollar earned on every filter sold since '03:th_frowning::th_frowning:
Click to expand...

Whatever my man, your now the Chevy engine build expert, enjoy you day drinking and driving your sometimes fast boat.:th_laugh-pointup:
 
20 Years, 12 vehicles, over 1,000,000 miles, and not ONE engine failure, ALL on FRAM filters. I did catch a bad head gasket on a 3.1 96 Grand Am and replaced it before it had a chance to spin the bearings. I drive in Northern Virginia, which is all about regular hard accelleration to the redline (to merge into traffic with an ambient speed inthe 90s), up to 3 hours a day in 100 degree heat in idling traffic, and sustained speeds at times high enough to pace a small plane.:driving: I don't do any major engine mods or any racing, but I run extra guard on my DDs and tough guard on anything that tows a trailer. Companies get a bad name when they are big because they sell a lot of product and usually only those who have experienced failures post. I don't know what fram's production numbers are, but if you make 100,000 units and have a failure rate of 1 in 100,000 and another company makes 10,000,000 units and has the same failure rate, then the bigger company will have 99 more irate customers posting than the smaller one.

The biggest thing I learned from this thread is the zinc thing. I know someone with a 93 GMC 350 and need to warn them about it. :th_nervous:
 
If so, then not on all of them. I believe Vortec V-8 engines received rollers, but pre-vortec were not (speaking of 305 and 350 only).
 
Parrothead said:
20 Years, 12 vehicles, over 1,000,000 miles, and not ONE engine failure, ALL on FRAM filters. I did catch a bad head gasket on a 3.1 96 Grand Am and replaced it before it had a chance to spin the bearings. I drive in Northern Virginia, which is all about regular hard accelleration to the redline (to merge into traffic with an ambient speed inthe 90s), up to 3 hours a day in 100 degree heat in idling traffic, and sustained speeds at times high enough to pace a small plane.:driving: I don't do any major engine mods or any racing, but I run extra guard on my DDs and tough guard on anything that tows a trailer. Companies get a bad name when they are big because they sell a lot of product and usually only those who have experienced failures post. I don't know what fram's production numbers are, but if you make 100,000 units and have a failure rate of 1 in 100,000 and another company makes 10,000,000 units and has the same failure rate, then the bigger company will have 99 more irate customers posting than the smaller one.

The biggest thing I learned from this thread is the zinc thing. I know someone with a 93 GMC 350 and need to warn them about it. :th_nervous:
Click to expand...

Parrothead,
Thanks for the comments. Our defect rate is less than two per million. This includes cosmetic defects like paint and labeling. That said, we make more than 200 million filters a year. Your chance of getting a defective filter are pretty slim. There is a guy on YouTube cutting open FRAM filters and magically all of them are defective. Hard to believe he could somehow find those two in a million every trip to the store.
:th_nervous::D
 


Read the information on this link Fram Man. This guy cut them all open.

Oil Filters Revealed - MiniMopar Resources

Since you're so open minded and don't like to bash other companies products, I will.

You're a junk peddler. Fram filters used to be good years ago. There's a reason why a Fram oil filter is one of the lowest cost filters on the shelf.

You get what you pay for. Excerpts from the study:

Fram Extra Guard

Years ago Fram was a quality filter manufacturer. Now their standard filter (the radioactive-orange cans) is one of the worst out there. It features cardboard end caps for the filter element that are glued in place. The rubber anti-drainback valve seals against the cardboard and frequently leaks, causing dirty oil to drain back into the pan. The bypass valves are plastic and are sometimes not molded correctly, which allows them to leak all the time. The stamped-metal threaded end is weakly constructed and it has smaller and fewer oil inlet holes, which may restrict flow. I had one of these filters fail in my previous car. The filter element collapsed and bits of filter and glue were circulating through my system. The oil passage to the head became blocked and the head got so hot from oil starvation that it actually melted the vacuum lines connected to it as well as the wires near it.


Fram Double Guard

Another bad filter idea brought to you by your friends at Fram. The filter itself is a slightly improved design over the Fram Extra Guard, but still uses the same filter element. It has a silicone anti-drainback valve, a quality pressure relief valve, and enough inlet holes for good flow. The big problem is that they are trying to cash in on the Slick 50 craze. They impregnate the filter element with bits of Teflon like that found in Slick 50. As with Slick 50, Teflon is a solid and does not belong in an engine. It cannot get into the parts of the engine that oil can and therefore does nothing. Also, as the filter gets dirty, it ends up filtering the Teflon right out. DuPont (the manufacturer of Teflon) does not recommend Teflon for use in internal combustion engines. Please do not waste your money on this filter.


Fram High Mileage

Yet another bad filter idea brought to you by your friends at Fram! Gotta love these guys. It's a Fram Extra Guard with a weird goo cartridge suspended on the clean side of the filter, blocking the outlet. It's supposed to be some kind of additive package, but if you want a high mileage oil, buy a high mileage oil. I don't trust these guys...sorry.


Pennzoil

This filter is a Fram. It is the exact same design as the Fram Extra Guard filter and it is junk. On the up side, it costs $1 less than the Fram version.


Quaker State

This is another Fram Extra Guard that I have seen at K-mart. It used to be a Purolator, but Quaker State is now owned/controlled by Pennzoil...



He was also objective. He gave one of your oil filters a high rating:

Fram Tough Guard

Even with all the problems of the other Fram filters, this one is not too bad. It has a heavier filter element with more surface area, a silicone anti-drainback valve, the cheap pressure relief valve, but with an integral screen to keep out large particles, and enough inlet holes for good flow. The only other drawback to this filter is that it is capped on each end with cardboard instead of metal. Looking in through the center outlet does not reveal any paper end caps, but they are there. I personally do not use this filter, but the design didn't have enough bad qualities to cause me to tell others to avoid it.
 
04silverprix said:
Read the information on this link Fram Man. This guy cut them all open.

Oil Filters Revealed - MiniMopar Resources

Since you're so open minded and don't like to bash other companies products, I will.

You're a junk peddler. Fram filters used to be good years ago. There's a reason why a Fram oil filter is one of the lowest cost filters on the shelf.


Mr Silver,
I am not a junk peddler. I am an engineer, an ASE master tech for 30 years, a repair shop owner, motorcycle and car racer, technical training manager for FRAM, Prestone, Autolite and (formerly) Bendix and Garret.
I have 30 years of hands on repair and technical automotive experience in repair and engineering/testing. That is who I am.

You get what you pay for. Excerpts from the study:

Fram Extra Guard

Years ago Fram was a quality filter manufacturer. Now their standard filter (the radioactive-orange cans) is one of the worst out there. It features cardboard end caps for the filter element that are glued in place.
How many years was that? We have made filters with fiber end caps for 42 years, so when are you talking about? Over 2 billion filters with fiber end caps. AC Delco also uses fiber enbd caps. We make filters the same way for Honda and Subaru as well. Even Bentley uses fiber end caps on they 345,000$$ Arnage. It is proven technology that works. 2010 and up Toyota oil filters have no end caps at all. Do you even understand how and end cap works and what it does? Obviously from your comments, you do not.

The rubber anti-drainback valve seals against the cardboard and frequently leaks, causing dirty oil to drain back into the pan.
The antidrainback valve does not seal against the end cap, it seals against the tapping plate again, you display your lack of knowledge of how a filter works. The EG filter has a nitrile rubber valve, all other filters in our line are silicone.

The bypass valves are plastic and are sometimes not molded correctly, which allows them to leak all the time.
Really, the defect rate is less than 2 per million. We tests these valves for 1 million cycles, equal to being on a car for 35k miles.

The stamped-metal threaded end is weakly constructed and it has smaller and fewer oil inlet holes, which may restrict flow.
It's called a tapping plate if you actually took time to learn something about filters. The plate withstands pressure up to 250 psi before deforming, the oil holes are sized to flow rate of the car its going on. fram.com/proof to see the test

I had one of these filters fail in my previous car. The filter element collapsed and bits of filter and glue were circulating through my system. The oil passage to the head became blocked and the head got so hot from oil starvation that it actually melted the vacuum lines connected to it as well as the wires near it.
If your filter element collapsed, your block mounted bypass valve malfunctioned. This is a result of poor maintenance habits. Did you file a claim? If you did and filter was defective, we would have bought you an engine. Right after an independent engineer inspected the blown up engine and filter. No, you didnt just decide to eat the cost of the engine dude, please!


Fram Double Guard

Another bad filter idea brought to you by your friends at Fram. The filter itself is a slightly improved design over the Fram Extra Guard, but still uses the same filter element. It has a silicone anti-drainback valve, a quality pressure relief valve, and enough inlet holes for good flow. The big problem is that they are trying to cash in on the Slick 50 craze. They impregnate the filter element with bits of Teflon like that found in Slick 50. As with Slick 50, Teflon is a solid and does not belong in an engine. It cannot get into the parts of the engine that oil can and therefore does nothing. Also, as the filter gets dirty, it ends up filtering the Teflon right out. DuPont (the manufacturer of Teflon) does not recommend Teflon for use in internal combustion engines. Please do not waste your money on this filter.

This filter has been discontinued for over ten years, it was immediately discontinued when using teflon was proven to be no benefit to engine bearings, it is not however harmfull either.


Fram High Mileage

Yet another bad filter idea brought to you by your friends at Fram! Gotta love these guys. It's a Fram Extra Guard with a weird goo cartridge suspended on the clean side of the filter, blocking the outlet. It's supposed to be some kind of additive package, but if you want a high mileage oil, buy a high mileage oil. I don't trust these guys...sorry.

Doesnt block the outlet, has real benefits for higher mileage engines and agian your speaking about something you know nothing about. Many fleets and Mack Trucks OE are using this technology to extend oil drain intervals. Do you work at WIX or something?


Pennzoil

This filter is a Fram. It is the exact same design as the Fram Extra Guard filter and it is junk. On the up side, it costs $1 less than the Fram version.

Again, displaying your lack of knowledge. We havent made the Pennzoil filters for over 6 years. And when we did, it was a 95% efficiency filter. Better than WIX or Purolaters low cost filters dude.


Quaker State

This is another Fram Extra Guard that I have seen at K-mart. It used to be a Purolator, but Quaker State is now owned/controlled by Pennzoil...

Again, you really dont know what your talking about. We havent made their filters for over ten years and when we did, it was a 95% efficinecy filter



He was also objective. He gave one of your oil filters a high rating:

Objective? I somehow didnt see any "oil filter" testing in this "oil filter" test. No place where they ran the filters either on a car or test bench and actually measured how much dirt they remove from the oil. No testing showing how much dirt they trap and hold till full. Nop durability testing, no burst strength testing. Just a nearly 20 yr old "study" by a fan of Chrysler K cars offering his unscientific opinion of what is good or not. You know, everything you read on the internet is true dude!

Fram Tough Guard

Even with all the problems of the other Fram filters, this one is not too bad. It has a heavier filter element with more surface area, a silicone anti-drainback valve, the cheap pressure relief valve, but with an integral screen to keep out large particles, and enough inlet holes for good flow. The only other drawback to this filter is that it is capped on each end with cardboard instead of metal. Looking in through the center outlet does not reveal any paper end caps, but they are there. I personally do not use this filter, but the design didn't have enough bad qualities to cause me to tell others to avoid it.
Click to expand...

Tough Guard filters are 99% efficienct using ISO 4548-12 testing and trap and hold nearly 20 grams of dirt. It's a great filter for a 7500 mile oil change. Of course, he didnt test anything!

We make a better filter than that, Xtended Guard, stainless steel screen double wrapped with TWO layers of full synthetic glass media, STEEL end caps, Silicone ADB valve, 28 grams capacity, it is simply the best oil filter in the market bar none.

Please, instead of spouting what you think you know, take the FramChallenge.com and actually learn something about filters
Good Day buddy:D
 
So go test oil by how it looks and feels between your fingers.

Because once its black its bad right?

Tell me how that achieves anything.
 
We are obviously dealing with some lower intelligence levels. People with more dollars than sense if you get my drift. Some people like to ***** about things cause they have nothing better to do. They don't seem interested in the actual 'facts', just the internet facts.

SIDE NOTE: I have seen the same thing with people that only buy Honda and Toyota. The larger Honda's (especially early to mid 2000 model years) were notorious for dumping transmissions, but people keep buying them and after dropping several grand on a transmission they will tell everyone they know to only buy a Honda or Toyota cause they are so reliable or that they last forever.

Best advice: do your own research and use what works for you. Every car has idiosyncrasies. Every car manufacturer has had problems. Every car needs maintenance. And every filter company has had a filter failure. Those are facts of life. Just do your own research and go with what works for you.
 


Fram Man sounds very condescending:

Mr Silver,
I am not a junk peddler. I am an engineer, an ASE master tech for 30 years, a repair shop owner, motorcycle and car racer, technical training manager for FRAM, Prestone, Autolite and (formerly) Bendix and Garret.
I have 30 years of hands on repair and technical automotive experience in repair and engineering/testing. That is who I am.

Thirty years, then you should know better. You like to bash the people on this thread as well. You think you're the only person with experience in the automotive business? I suppose all of the other people on this thread who dislike Fram filters aren't as smart as you either.

I also worked many years in the auto parts business and know many mechanics and they too think when Allied Signal made Fram filters they were good filters. I used to use Fram filters. But I would put a Wix filter or a Purolator against a comparable Fram any day. I have never heard any of the complaints directed to Fram filters directed to Wix or Purolator filters.

You're doing your job and you appear to be very loyal to your employer. For that, you should be complimented, but to ignore what is being said on this post means you do not acknowlege that there ever has been a problem with Fram oil filters. If Frams are as great as you say, then why was this thread created in the first place? I haven't seen a similar thread about Wix or Purolator filters? Personally, I have never had an engine failure caused by any oil filter, but I sure have heard about a high number involving Fram oil filters. Coincidence? Maybe, but why risk it by taking your Fram Challenge?

Credibility is a fragile thing and Fram has lost a great deal of theirs out in the field. AC Delco has too. You like to define end caps and bypass valves etc., but none of that matters to the people on this thread who have experienced engine failure caused by a Fram oil filter. You like to blame maintenance habits instead. Good one. Maybe Fram should transfer you to its legal department. By the way, the guy (also an engineer) who conducted this study had lawyers representing Fram contact him. It doesn't matter if some of the filters he tested are no longer in production. Just about every bad filter he cut open was a Fram.

You urge me not to believe everything I read on the internet? That's good advice. So should I start with your claims?

This same argument can be applied to Pennzoil. For years there have been claims of Pennzoil gunking up engines. Is it true or not? I've seen engines with so much gunk in them that a paint paddle could be stood up in the lifter gallery. Pennzoil was to blame. Maybe it was the cause, or maybe the oil got changed every 12,000 miles. Pennzoil had lost some credibility and even after Shell oil acquired Pennzoil along with Quaker State, Pennzoil is still trying to shake its gunking image.

Maybe what you're peddling isn't junk, but as long as your customers are finding it difficult to trust your oil filters, just like Pennzoil, your company will have to work harder to gain the public's trust. Telling the public, your customers, they don't know what they're talking about won't encourage anybody to take your FramChallenge. Isn't that the reason you jumped on this thread in the first place???

Good luck to you.
 
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As someone who sells oil filters:

Its either the least expensive filter on the shelf, or a fram.

Hardly anyone wants anything else.

I couldnt even sell a honeywell defense filter to a fram customer. (same filter)

And believe me, i've tried.
 
I have a question about synthetic glass media, and this is not brand-specific. When given the choice between bits of paper dislodging and flowing through my engine and tiny shards of glass (a la fiberglass) doing the same, I would think paper would be safer. Have there been any instances out there of glass media letting go on a filter? I am not an engineer but am curious about this.
 


Dont have time to browse through all the posts, but Bosch part number 3331 is amazing. I do a lot of city driving, in a mostly warm climate (SoCal) and have been known to go over milage for changes. I run mobil1 5w-30 synth and the oil always comes out a slight dark golden brown...smooth and clean. i would say, that for $6.49, its the best filter you can get. Zie Germans make a good product!!
 
matt5112 said:
So go test oil by how it looks and feels between your fingers.

Because once its black its bad right?

Tell me how that achieves anything.
Click to expand...

speaking of how it gets black, its usually the particulates still in the oil that discolors...the bosch i dont get a thick black oil even at 5k miles...quality of the filter material i suppose...
 
Used to use fram. noticed some slight issues with oil pressure on a Turbocharged Talon TSi I used to have. Switched to K&N or Mobil 1 and never had the same issue after that.

With the buick i just use AC Delco and cheap walmart synth oil. If it blows it blows. i only paid 3500 for the car so oh well...
 
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