Venom Coolers (intercool your snout)

[copgtp]

Re: Vemon Coolers (intercool your snout)

That's not a lot of heat but it goes into the snout and the oil which has no cooling. The supercharger belt is also generating heat which is going into the pulley and shaft adding more heat.

Exactly, not a lot of heat. So why not just run an intercooler? Running this unit stand-alone would be absolutely ridiculous, as the now "cooler" snout oil touches the gear plate, which in turn touches the casing, and bam, you've got your heat back.............

You can freeze ice cream solid right before you put it in a furnace...............it's not going to change the fact that you're going to get soup when you take it out.

But since everyone is jumping on this bandwagon, I'll take 2.

And since I'm on this rant, how about intercooling the throttle body? I mean, it does have moving parts so it must generate heat, plus if you have a cooler throttle body, your intake charge is much cooler! Hmmm, I may do some R & D for this...........I'd assume everyone interested in this would be interested in that also?

 

[sseilmnop]

I think your on to something! The throttle body already has coolant passages in it!

 

[matt5112]

Did anyone take temp readings or is being able to put your hand on it the goal?

 

[alkygto]

Re: Vemon Coolers (intercool your snout)

Whhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhat!?!?! Most of the heat, in a supercharger, comes from the snout!? This statement alone makes no sense. Most people understand that two large rotors spinning at high speeds within .001 mm of each other is where most of the heat comes from. Yea, the snout does generate SOME heat, but not nearly as much as the rotors themselves.

And looking at our roots blower..........the snout isn't even CONNECTED to the LIM................so any heat produced at the snout has to go through the case of the blower to get to the LIM, etc, etc....heatsoak. Why try to put a fire out with a water bottle, when I can put it out with a bucket of water?

Your logic is way off dude. The heat from the supercharger has nothing to do with "the rotors spinning 1mm from each other". I mean "really"? Heat in a supercharger comes from compressing the air (in a supercharger it's called "adiabatic efficiancy"), heat transfer from the engines combustion, and from the friction in the front gear drive. That transfers to the rest of the case which is why we typically see higher temps by the front drive than at the TB side of the case. Again, a lot of conjecture here without looking at what is actually happening or even understanding how things work. And yet people pass themselves off as "experts" lol.

Has anyone watched the videos on Youtube? I think they explain how it works and show the temp differences. And that car is equipped with a "killer chiller" which was'nt even in use for the vid. When the KC was used in conjuction with the VC on the SC equipped with a SB the case was actually COLD to the touch after some spirited driving.

 

[Pure2sin]

Re: Vemon Coolers (intercool your snout)

Has anyone watched the videos on Youtube? I think they explain how it works and show the temp differences. And that car is equipped with a "killer chiller" which was'nt even in use for the vid. When the KC was used in conjuction with the VC on the SC equipped with a SB the case was actually COLD to the touch after some spirited driving.

I will say it again. WHO CARES how cold the case is....The air coming out of it is the main thing.

If you don't have a IAT in your LIM then this thread is on it's way to epic fail.


What has failed to have been explained so far is:

How does cooling the snout cool the charge coming out of the blower?

I could care less how cold my blower is if it's doing nothing for the air coming out it because I am not rubbing and caressing my supercharger while driving.

 

[Sandman]

Since Alky is getting one...numbers would be good unless someone with a Cobra has done it

 

[matt5112]

Its not about lowering iats. Its about longevity of blower oil and snout bearings.

However those items are probably designed to run at a certain temp which they will probably never reach with this cooler.

Have a tstat system for the winter?

Otherwise you'll just increase wear as the oil doesn't have a chance to warm up and provide protection.

 

[alkygto]

Re: Vemon Coolers (intercool your snout)

That's why I run this in my blower -

 

[SlowNA06]

Re: Vemon Coolers (intercool your snout)

Its about longevity of blower oil and snout bearings.

The oil gets changed every 30k, for less than $20.
The bearings are cheap and can be changed. You know, every 200,000 miles or whatever they're lasting.

Neither of these seem to be appealing reasons at the price point. I'd rather ride the parts to failure and replace them a handful of times for cheaper.

 

[sseilmnop]

Serious the cooler might help case temperatures a little bit. It might help bearing life in the snout. I'm not sure it will get you any hp and I never had bearings go bad in the the case.

A phenolic spacer separates the blower from the 200 degree motor. I'd bet a phenolic spacer only will give lower temperatures across the whole supercharger!

Most Intercoolers (not prj, the air isn't forced through the Intercooler in bypass) cools the supercharger because the air is being pushed down through the Intercooler and coming back up the bypass valve when the engine isn't in boost. Most of the air is going round and round passing through the Intercooler each time. Phenolic Intercoolers combine cooling the supercharger and separating the blower from the 200 degree engine.

$450 (???) is a lot of money for only a little bit of gain.

I still like the fan blade pulleys. Wish I had access to a cnc lathe

 

[matt5112]

Re: Vemon Coolers (intercool your snout)

Serious the cooler might help case temperatures a little bit. It might help bearing life in the snout. I'm not sure it will get you any hp and I never had bearings go bad in the the case.

A phenolic spacer separates the blower from the 200 degree motor. I'd bet a phenolic spacer only will give lower temperatures across the whole supercharger!

Most Intercoolers (not prj, the air isn't forced through the Intercooler in bypass) cools the supercharger because the air is being pushed down through the Intercooler and coming back up the bypass valve when the engine isn't in boost. Most of the air is going round and round passing through the Intercooler each time. Phenolic Intercoolers combine cooling the supercharger and separating the blower from the 200 degree engine.

$450 (???) is a lot of money for only a little bit of gain.

I still like the fan blade pulleys. Wish I had access to a cnc lathe

My core was 14x and the blower case and TB was 160, then 165-170 for the snout.

And this was an aluminum core.

 

[Pure2sin]

Re: Vemon Coolers (intercool your snout)

Its not about lowering iats. Its about longevity of blower oil and snout bearings.

I agree but stuff like this is being said:

me and Alky can enjoy our cooler blowers, and before the swap we will get before temps of the blower and the IAT temps and then after the swap we will read the blower temps and IAT temps.

Actually most of the heat of the supercharger comes from the front drive. By reducing front drive temps you naturally reduce overall blower temps and if you tie this into your intercooler it eliminates heatsoak under all conditions, not just at the track but all the time. Improves intercooler efficiancy because the air going into the intercooler is now a lower temp.

That's why I said one of them better have a sensor in the LIM.

What someone really needs to do is get an IR thermometer and check the snout temp and different parts of the case before and after, combined with having a IAT in the LIM.

 

[z3r0]

**** the cooler I want the snake bite kit

Android Fire

 

[copgtp]

Re: Vemon Coolers (intercool your snout)

Your logic is way off dude. The heat from the supercharger has nothing to do with "the rotors spinning 1mm from each other". I mean "really"? Heat in a supercharger comes from compressing the air (in a supercharger it's called "adiabatic efficiancy"), heat transfer from the engines combustion, and from the friction in the front gear drive. That transfers to the rest of the case which is why we typically see higher temps by the front drive than at the TB side of the case. Again, a lot of conjecture here without looking at what is actually happening or even understanding how things work. And yet people pass themselves off as "experts" lol.

Has anyone watched the videos on Youtube? I think they explain how it works and show the temp differences. And that car is equipped with a "killer chiller" which was'nt even in use for the vid. When the KC was used in conjuction with the VC on the SC equipped with a SB the case was actually COLD to the touch after some spirited driving.

A root style Eaton blower doesn't compress air nearly as much as a twin screw blower................so for you to tell me I don't even know what I'm talking about, and then say something like that, is complete hypocrisy.

But you're right, most of the heat that is generated is from the "compressing of air" and the two rotors spinning (exactly what I already said)........... So how is cooling a supercharger snout.........a piece that is totally isolated from the rotors, something that is going to increase efficiency??? You typically see higher temperatures by the snout because it is at the opposite end of the air intake..........therefore isn't being introduced to fresh, cooler air like the TB side of the blower. Yea, some heat is definitely generated by the snout, but not nearly enough to say a snout cooler is necessary. Many of us running full core intercoolers have superchargers that are "cool to the touch" after spirited driving.

You shouldn't throw statements like " adiabatic efficiency" around if you don't know how to spell them..........or how it relates to the M90 roots supercharger we have on our platform. You see, adiabatic efficiency correlates directly with how much work a compressor has to do to compress air to a specific point. Only problem with your logic is the M90 roots supercharger does NOT do that much compressing!! Unlike a twin screw supercharger or a centrifugal supercharger, the amount of compression that is generated is minimal. Actually, the roots style blower is by far the least efficient type available. Cooling the snout will not increase efficiency of the blower..............

So, Why do I need a snout cooler? Some people make the point that cooling that area will increase the efficiency of the bearings and coupler, therefore increasing their life span......I've only heard of a handful of snout bearing failures because of fatigue (a lot of bearing failure is because of improper pulley installation / removal), and I've NEVER heard of a supercharger coupler failure because of high heat and fatigue............

 

[alkygto]

Re: Vemon Coolers (intercool your snout)

A root style Eaton blower doesn't compress air nearly as much as a twin screw blower................so for you to tell me I don't even know what I'm talking about, and then say something like that, is complete hypocrisy.

Now I'm a hypocrit. But below you say I'm right. lol.

But you're right, most of the heat that is generated is from the "compressing of air" and the two rotors spinning (exactly what I already said)........... So how is cooling a supercharger snout.........a piece that is totally isolated from the rotors, something that is going to increase efficiency??? You typically see higher temperatures by the snout because it is at the opposite end of the air intake..........therefore isn't being introduced to fresh, cooler air like the TB side of the blower. Yea, some heat is definitely generated by the snout, but not nearly enough to say a snout cooler is necessary. Many of us running full core intercoolers have superchargers that are "cool to the touch" after spirited driving.

Exactly what I said, hypocritically.

You shouldn't throw statements like " adiabatic efficiency" around if you don't know how to spell them..........or how it relates to the M90 roots supercharger we have on our platform. You see, adiabatic efficiency correlates directly with how much work a compressor has to do to compress air to a specific point. Only problem with your logic is the M90 roots supercharger does NOT do that much compressing!! Unlike a twin screw supercharger or a centrifugal supercharger, the amount of compression that is generated is minimal. Actually, the roots style blower is by far the least efficient type available. Cooling the snout will not increase efficiency of the blower..............


Uhmm, my spelling is correct (same as you used ) and I do understand the term. And let me explain it too you on some simple terms. When you say that "the roots style blower is by far the least efficient type available" I'm assuming your talking about "adiabatic efficiency". That means for the volume of air compressed the roots will heat the incoming air charge the most.

So, Why do I need a snout cooler? Some people make the point that cooling that area will increase the efficiency of the bearings and coupler, therefore increasing their life span......I've only heard of a handful of snout bearing failures because of fatigue (a lot of bearing failure is because of improper pulley installation / removal), and I've NEVER heard of a supercharger coupler failure because of high heat and fatigue............

You don't need a snout cooler. Don't buy one!

Eaton Corp makes around 4 million superchargers a year (fact). I'm sure in all your vast experience that these "handfull of snout bearing failures" (I like to call em "front drives" just sounds more "techy" lol) are the preverbial drop in the bucket.

BTW, did you know I built a supercharger dynomometer? Yeah, I worked with an EE (retired from Boeing and IBM) on the software to map these superchargers (and others) to see the benefits of port design and the effects of heat and air density on their output. Here is a video link of me running it on Bobs website_- Dyno of Eaton Supercharger on SXF1000 - YouTube and it was constructed and designed completely by me to SAE J1723_199508 standards Superchargers - SAE Standards and I've done extensive testing with it. It's loud, you'd like it.

I guess what I'm trying to convey here is that I'm not talking out my ass. Stiege was'nt even going to offer these to the GP community until I proposed it and he agreed to make the prototypes for stlmo_gtp and I. There might not be any others if there is no interest. We were just putting them out there as a feeler. Please, if your interested it would be best to contact Stiege personally. I will start a list and when we get to a certain amount of units we will do a group buy if there is enough interest. Thanks to those that have PM'd me to stay out of the fray, and to those who hate, have a nice day!

 

[copgtp]

Re: Vemon Coolers (intercool your snout)

Enjoy your snout cooler.

One more question though.......

What exactly does that last video prove that you posted? The one with the cobra on the dyno???

That cobra obviously has work done to it, and has a larger intercooler reservoir tank bolted to it. There was no "before and after" video showing blower temps with the snout cooler, and without it. So it's my assumption that the intercooler itself is keeping that blower cool, rather than your snout cooler.

 

[darkhorizon]

Re: Vemon Coolers (intercool your snout)

You have a supercharger dyno.. Post the output temperature vs pressure plot with and without a venom cooler.... Shouldnt take more than 20 minutes to DO the work and less than 5 to post the results you obviously already have.

 

[SnowFlake]

Re: Vemon Coolers (intercool your snout)

Funny thing is I went to Stieges today and he can't hardly keep up with the demand for these "Venom Coolers". They're litterally selling like hotcakes. One gent sent in two brand new Stillen blowers for late model F150's to have them installed, shipped straight from the manufacturer. Today. And there's more new stuff coming out........

Proof that people are stupid.

 

[Bio248]

Everyone needs to cool their jets. The fact is that this system does have benefits. It also has costs. If you care to learn more, add to the conversation, critique with logical thought, or wait for results then good for you.

If you've got nothing to say besides negative things then stay the **** out of the thread. I'm sick of the bickering because some people think their opinions of this being useless need to be heard. Screw you, Mr. Scrooge. Go home.

 

[copgtp]

Everyone needs to cool their jets. The fact is that this system does have benefits. It also has costs. If you care to learn more, add to the conversation, critique with logical thought, or wait for results then good for you.

If you've got nothing to say besides negative things then stay the **** out of the thread. I'm sick of the bickering because some people think their opinions of this being useless need to be heard. Screw you, Mr. Scrooge. Go home.

No one is arguing that this snout cooler wont do anything. We all understand that it will lower snout temps, and possibly prolong the life of snout components.

Why does every comment have to be positive? I personally dont want to see people mistake this mod as a cheaper alternative to an intercooler. It seems that the manufacturer of this product is doing his best to market it as such....and it seems to be working.

These guys singing praise need to post definitive proof that this keeps the snout and the blower case cooler.......until then, I say it's really all about aesthetics.

Sent using my bionic thumbs from my sweet DROID Razr Maxx