time to look for a bike
- Thread starter RamonGTX
- Start date
seanparker3
New member
ok Coming from someone who has ridden all of those with the exception of the r1 because they are junk. Take your want list and put the gsxr on top then you have it right. Suzuki dominates in all aspects and kawi has been playing catch up in 2nd for years
blueguy
The Blue One
dsmuts
Moderator
I do change the oil, i have never messed with the chain tension because it's shaft drive (unless you count the tensioner inside the motor), and the brakes are fine i bleed them to put fresh fluid in them every year. It's pretty maintenance free but you get that with a honda. It gets better gas mileage and is cheaper to maintain than a car but people say they are more expensive? It doesn't make sense to me.
Man, I love the brand bashing. no offense, but do any of you guys actually RACE these things? Have you put good time on ALL of them?
The new ZX-10r is a bad machine, no doubt. However, get on the BMW S1000rr and run the same roads. Much easier to handle, and smoother overall.
The Zuk is also a good machine, but a bit dated at this point. This is coming from someone who runs almost all Suzuki.
The Crossplane R1 is a mid-range beast, and has a good chassis, but doesn't have the pull out of the corners the others do.
The Honda is the smoothest and most stable, but suffers from lack of horsepower.
Aprilia RSV4, is a nearly unrivaled beast of a mahcine, but VERY hard to reign in. When it comes loose, its very hard to get back under control.
Ducati 1198 lacks top-end, and is very twitchy. They are hooligan bikes, with tons of troque and a strange handling dynamic. You ride it like its out of control all the time, and you'll get the best results.
The new ZX-10r is a bad machine, no doubt. However, get on the BMW S1000rr and run the same roads. Much easier to handle, and smoother overall.
The Zuk is also a good machine, but a bit dated at this point. This is coming from someone who runs almost all Suzuki.
The Crossplane R1 is a mid-range beast, and has a good chassis, but doesn't have the pull out of the corners the others do.
The Honda is the smoothest and most stable, but suffers from lack of horsepower.
Aprilia RSV4, is a nearly unrivaled beast of a mahcine, but VERY hard to reign in. When it comes loose, its very hard to get back under control.
Ducati 1198 lacks top-end, and is very twitchy. They are hooligan bikes, with tons of troque and a strange handling dynamic. You ride it like its out of control all the time, and you'll get the best results.
Please tell me why the R1 is junk. Go ahead, I'm listening. Is it the massive amounts of engineering development? The powerhouse engine? The ability to win races?
My Suzuki is cutting some serious numbers at the drag track. I'm knocking down all the other Zuks, a ZX-14 on boost, and several GSXR Thous.
The ONE bike that gives me chills when it pulls up in the other lane? A built '09 R1 on spray.
Bio248
DUI BABY
i agree with everything you've said, nophix. however, i think its kind of unfair to compare the big four sport bike companies to brands like BMW, aprilia, or ducati. they are just higher end bikes that SHOULD outperform the others due to their cost in the end. dont get me wrong, if i had the money id just go ahead and pick up one of each brand and call it good, but at this point in my life i need to pick and choose between my brands to suit what i enjoy.
good call though on all the statements you said. the R1 is a monster, but ill always lean towards hondas and kawasakis because those are the ones i prefer. suzukis never really hit home for me so i leave them do their own thing. i think the main thing that turned me off from suzukis is really the whole 'busa line. they introduced a whole new area of squid to the market (i know a zx-14 can be lumped in this, but doesnt follow the same stigma to me).
good call though on all the statements you said. the R1 is a monster, but ill always lean towards hondas and kawasakis because those are the ones i prefer. suzukis never really hit home for me so i leave them do their own thing. i think the main thing that turned me off from suzukis is really the whole 'busa line. they introduced a whole new area of squid to the market (i know a zx-14 can be lumped in this, but doesnt follow the same stigma to me).
The S1000RR is cheaper than the new ZX-10r MSRP by $500, and the RSV4 base can be had in a similar price range. The Duc is only more expensive due to volume. Honestly, the bikes are all in a similar class, when you talk performance.
The top-tier bikes, be it japanese or euro, all basically come back to rider style anyhow. You can't go wrong with any of them. For me, I love the ride of the BMW and the Suzuki, cant stand the Honda SS bikes. My buddy fits the R1 and Honda, and cant stand my Suzukis.
And, I agree about the Busa. I actually love the bike, and have had several, but they were used as touring bikes and pure race bikes. But the things done to those bikes are just plain WRONG!!!
The top-tier bikes, be it japanese or euro, all basically come back to rider style anyhow. You can't go wrong with any of them. For me, I love the ride of the BMW and the Suzuki, cant stand the Honda SS bikes. My buddy fits the R1 and Honda, and cant stand my Suzukis.
And, I agree about the Busa. I actually love the bike, and have had several, but they were used as touring bikes and pure race bikes. But the things done to those bikes are just plain WRONG!!!
f3racer
New member
Agreed 100% as I have ridden pretty much everything under the sun. The dillhole remark was little rough. I a have onwed every brand 600. 1/4 turn is full throttle? I don't think so.
Oh and I am an MSF rider coach for the military sportbike rider course here. I am not saying a 600 is the best way to go but I think you over exaggerated a bit. I do agree an sv650 is a great bike for beginners and experts alike.
zx7r4u2nv
New member
I used the (gas price) reasoning years ago. I think it was to make myself feel better about the money i was spending.
Truth be told. You will never recoupe the price of the bike in your fuel savings. Unless you purchase an extremly cheap bike or keep it for 20 years and put several hundred thousand miles on it.
Currently have a 2001 GSXR 1000 turbo
and a 1998 Kawasaki ZX7R
Hoping to sell 1 or both soon to get a 2010 Honda cbr1000rr Repsol for me and a 2009 kawasaki Ninja 250 for the g/f.
Truth be told. You will never recoupe the price of the bike in your fuel savings. Unless you purchase an extremly cheap bike or keep it for 20 years and put several hundred thousand miles on it.
Currently have a 2001 GSXR 1000 turbo
and a 1998 Kawasaki ZX7R
Hoping to sell 1 or both soon to get a 2010 Honda cbr1000rr Repsol for me and a 2009 kawasaki Ninja 250 for the g/f.
A 600SS is faster now than some much larger bikes were a few years ago, and very quick to respond to any little movement. I'm an MSF rider coach as well, and there is no bloody way I would tell me students a 600SS is ok.
All SS bikes are built for one thing-going ridiculously fast. They are RACE machines, period.
And yes, it is just shy of a quarter turn to full throttle. A very common issue with new riders is having a tight grip on the bars, hitting a bump mid-corner, and finding a handful of that throttle. Not only is the turn of throttle easier on a non-SS bike, but the response of the engine is much slower.
This is a very hot button with me. I see way too many people giving out bad information. Telling a new rider they can handle any SS bike is like telling a new driver its ok to learn in a 10 second muscle car.
And yes, I've raced them, I've BUILT them. 600's, Thou's, and bigger. The bike sitting in my garage right now is capable of showing all the current production bikes it's taillight in short order. I know how much it takes to get in a bad situation really fast.
But hey, if you don't care enough about your students to make sure they get proper instruction, and actually learn to ride so they don't DIE, good luck.
f3racer
New member
i tell you what, come sit on my actual race bike and then tell me it's a quarter turn to full throttle. you'll see your wrong there.
next, what you have in your garage means nothing in this current topic. . my 600rr is just as capable of doing the same. if you would like i can email you my engine builds or my MMI Hontech or Ktech certificates. i as well know what it takes to get into trouble.
third, saying i dont care about my students deserves a swift ass kicking. i give my students the knowledge to make the right decisions. i always, as i did in my 1st post, recommend a small bike with little bodywork as a 1st bike. any bike and i do mean any bike can get you into trouble if you get ham fisted. i watched a buddy highside an aprilia rs50. its a damn 50. we can agree to disagree but dont you ****ing dare go into name calling and accusations pal. you dont know me.
did i call you anything when i didnt agree with what you said? no. i agree with some of your points and not others. i respectfully point out where i dont agree and post why i dont. grow the hell up. if your a rider coach, builder, rider, and racer, then act like one. i can stand for hours in the pits and discuss things without resorting to the **** you have. its pretty hard to piss me off but congrats on doing so.
zx7....an ss refers to a super sport, or super stock machine. depending on who you talk to. an ss is a sport bike. your zx7 would be concidered a supersport machine. not necessarily the nomenclature of the bike itself.
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f3racer
New member
i looked at the websites directly. the s1krr is 13,950 for base with no options http://www.bmwmotorcycles.com/us/en/index.html, zx10r 13,799 http://www.kawasaki.com/Products/Product-Specifications.aspx?scid=24&id=497, aprilia rsv4 is 15,999 for just the base http://www.apriliausa.com/en-US/Model/31848/RSV4+R/Overview.aspx. i dont know what you do for a living but 2200 bucks is a big difference to me.
zx7r4u2nv
New member
ok, no answer for my 600ss question.
Also not sure what this quarter turn throttle arguement is all about.
No stock bike has ever come with a quarter turn throttle. (1/4 for full cable pull).
Although almost every sport bike is a 1/4 turn to full throttle (or really close). Even though it can be turned past 1/4 turn the throttle body is already 100% open.
The 1/4 turn (from closed to cable stop) does make for a little bit touchier response. But 1/4 to full throttle allows for all riders to reach full throttle without having to reposition your hand.
This is just my observation from all the bikes i have owned and riden.
Also not sure what this quarter turn throttle arguement is all about.
No stock bike has ever come with a quarter turn throttle. (1/4 for full cable pull).
Although almost every sport bike is a 1/4 turn to full throttle (or really close). Even though it can be turned past 1/4 turn the throttle body is already 100% open.
The 1/4 turn (from closed to cable stop) does make for a little bit touchier response. But 1/4 to full throttle allows for all riders to reach full throttle without having to reposition your hand.
This is just my observation from all the bikes i have owned and riden.
f3racer
New member
Look up a couple posts brother I answered your question. No fuel injected machine is at 100% throttle at only a 1/4 turn. More like 3/4 turn . If you ever get a chance to do some serious dyno work you will see what I'm talking about. My bazzaz tuning program shows % of throttle at % of throttle turn. My 600rr stock was 78% throttle at 41% throttle turn. Now it is at 100% at 60% turn. I have used 1/4 turn motion pro kits on a few of my bikes. The bottom of my longer post gives your answer on the ss stuff.
That argument has to do with how well a new rider would handle the bike. A new rider tends to tightly grip the bars, and something as simple as a bump in the road can cause you to grab a handful of throttle.
Your tuning program doesn't read the position of your actual throttle on the bar, it reads the TPS on the throttle bodies. Measure from your pivot point on your wrist, and do the same on a non-SS bike. This is where the 1/4 turn measurement comes from . I can roll the throttle on my GSXR from stop to stop in about 1/4 turn of my wrist. My buddies SV-650 parked right next to it takes a full half. It actually requires you to raise your hand quite high to do a full sweep.
Btw, I sent you a response to the PM. I agree, I got a bit harsh, and I apologize for that. It's a very sensitive issue for me.
SS simply means Super Sport. This means GSXR, ZX, CBR, R series, or any other bike in that catagory. These are basically race bikes with lights.