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sputtering at speed

I didn't and I have no idea what was done to this car before I bought it. Ordinarily I would have simply chucked it and found something else but my funds are funnier this time around. Plus I've always been a Pontiac guy. My first car was a '77 GP Brougham, went from there to a Sunbird (horrible little car but it worked as a daily work driver) to a Bonneville and finally back to the GP. In between I had a Dodge, a Saturn, a Chevy. etc. Always came back to Pontiac though. Since I've found this forum, whenever I get back to where I want to be, i.e. a garage, I want to start modding this piece of crap. LOL In any event, I just get the feeling that this is something relatively inexpensive as compared with a engine swap or head swap. Maybe I'll poke around and see if that's the issue.
 


what I might add also, I noticed that since I brought my car home, now the fans kick on as soon as I start the car. what's that all about?
 
Okay, took off the TB, looked inside and all I saw was what looked like oil. Pic below. Cleaned everything up real good. Swapped out the t-stat back to the new one I bought. Fans were on constantly before, now they won't come on at all. So I at least think the new t-stat is bad. I'm waiting for it to cool down to swap it back. This is the hottest it got after I put everything back together. Now this is the thing, I got steam coming from behind the fan on the rad. Can't see exactly where but I believe that many of my issues will be solved with a new rad. That's on the list. Luckily, its going to be 70 everyday for the next at least four days so I have time to work on it. I'm trying to eliminate all of the little stuff before I confirm that I need to do the LIM and maybe the head gasket. I just feel like f*** it, I may as well try to save some money and get out there and try to fix it myself.
 

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this looks like coolant to me. what is this pic of?


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Oh the other two pics are what's under the t-sat and the max temp it got after idling for a while. I didn't drive it so no load was on the engine so I'll check it after I drive it around the complex for a bit. Looks real rusty under the t-sat.
 


I tried to get the temp sensor out but the 3/4 box I had was too large for the amount of space that I had. So I have to wait to get a long socket.
 
Okay, now my fans are not kicking in at all. The heat has magically returned though. LOL This car is possessed. I ran it for a while and drove around my complex until it got hot. The temp barely moved above the pic above. What it DID do was begin the burn plastic of some sort in the front around the driver side of the rad. I don't know if its because the rad got hot and began to burn the fan housing or what. Any ideas. I also swapped the t-sats again to see if that would make the fans kick back on but no luck. I plan to trace the wiring tomorrow to see if something's disconnected. If not, is there a fuse or module that needs to be checked?
 
from the temp sensor, its plug is like a short harness, plugs in on top of the lim , its like 4 inches long. make sure its not cracked or has bare wire showing.
 
Okay, got the temp sensor swapped out. Changed the upper rad hose with new clamps. Get this though. Yesterday the fans ran continuously, today they don't run at all. I went to AZ and got everything I need except two fuses and two relays. I don't know what went wrong. I traced all the cabling/wiring and all the modules are connected properly. Car doesn't overheat but the fans won't come on which will lead it to overheat. I'm virtually convinced I need a new rad as its leaking in the corner and I don't trust my soldering hand. Any ideas what to check to figure the fans out?

Secondly, I rented a block tester and a coolant pressure tester. I ran the block tester. As the the car was at normal op temp, I pumped it seemingly forever. No change from blue, when the engine began to overheat, sucked in a bit of coolant and instantly turned yellowish green. So I changed fluid, and did it again. All the time I was pumping stayed blue, as soon as a bit of coolant expelled from the rad, green. So I don't know if I was doing it wrong or what. Today I'm going to run the coolant system pressure test as soon as my twins wake up. LOL Gotta love babysitting duty.
 


2-17 temp.jpgOkay, must have been a bad relay. The fans are back working but the heater seems as if it only blows half strength. This is as hot as it got after riding around and letting it idle for almost half an hour. Still have the leak but I'll deal with that another day. I'm still baffled with the block test. The stealership said they did one and it showed either a cracked head or cracked block. Why they went all the way to a crack instead of a blown head gasket I don't know. This is still hotter than I like to drive it, I forget what the lines indicate but I think its like 220. So the hunt continues. Think I'm going to get a rad off of ebay and take a stab at that.
 
jalaltariq said:
Okay, got the temp sensor swapped out. Changed the upper rad hose with new clamps. Get this though. Yesterday the fans ran continuously, today they don't run at all. I went to AZ and got everything I need except two fuses and two relays. I don't know what went wrong. I traced all the cabling/wiring and all the modules are connected properly. Car doesn't overheat but the fans won't come on which will lead it to overheat. I'm virtually convinced I need a new rad as its leaking in the corner and I don't trust my soldering hand. Any ideas what to check to figure the fans out?

Secondly, I rented a block tester and a coolant pressure tester. I ran the block tester. As the the car was at normal op temp, I pumped it seemingly forever. No change from blue, when the engine began to overheat, sucked in a bit of coolant and instantly turned yellowish green. So I changed fluid, and did it again. All the time I was pumping stayed blue, as soon as a bit of coolant expelled from the rad, green. So I don't know if I was doing it wrong or what. Today I'm going to run the coolant system pressure test as soon as my twins wake up. LOL Gotta love babysitting duty.
Click to expand...

You're not supposed to get coolant in the block tester solution as it will instantly change color. I would guess that with the leak, you're sucking in air and you have a pocket stuck in there. Replace the rad and follow the bleed procedure and see where you end up.
 
That's what I thought. But even if I have a leak shouldn't the block test show the bad gasket? Yeah, I'm pretty much resigned to swappin out the rad. I've never done it before so I'm kind of noid but nothing beats a failure but a try. Right?
 
rad is easy, i need to do mine, i found a few how to's.

your temp is dead on balls accurate. thats about 210 where your car should be running at if say your in traffic or stop and go traffic, on the highway it should come down some. maybe 2 or 3 lines.
 


jalaltariq said:
That's what I thought. But even if I have a leak shouldn't the block test show the bad gasket? Yeah, I'm pretty much resigned to swappin out the rad. I've never done it before so I'm kind of noid but nothing beats a failure but a try. Right?
Click to expand...

The block tester is supposed to react to fumes of exhaust indicating a blown gasket or broken things. Rad is easy. I changed mine 2 days after having a stroke in 97* heat in a protected wetlands area with minimal tools. Worst part was the lower rad hose in my opinion.
 
I'm on the job as we speak. Disassembly was problematic for want of another word. Will update when done.

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before removal.jpgbeat up tranny rad.jpgafter reinstall.jpgtemp after.jpgold rad.jpgrad fan.jpg Okay my friends, my adventure is over. Sven, your record is intact, it actually took me almost 5 hours and three beers to remove the fan and rad. I took my time so as to not break too much stuff. I only had to break a couple of the clips that hold the wiring to the fan, so I think I did pretty good. I ended up taking out the battery and pan along with the air filter box. The bottom rad hose was somewhat difficult as the squeeze clips were pointing down and in my infinite wisdom I parked too close to the curb to get a jack under the car to get under it. Lesson learned. In any event, I replaced all of the squeeze clips with screw clips for easy removal in the future. Next day I reassembled everything all the time hoping it was the coolant rad with the leak and not the other one. I also found out that one side of my fan did not have a heat shield. The take aways:

1. Its almost impossible to reclip the fans together on both sides, so I got one side on and screwed the other one in tightly.
2. Always make sure you have ALL your needed tools before disassembly, I found that out the hard way. My kingdom for a 3/4 crescent wrench to remove the tranny lines as the "quick" disconnect wasn't quick at all. Had to use a small adjustable, got them off with only minor damage to my knuckles.
3. Always remember the fan comes out at an angle and goes back in at an angle. Straight up and out is IMPOSSIBLE.
4. After reassembly, torque the motor mounts BEFORE starting the car. That's a feeling that no noob should go thru.
5. Don't sweat the little things. So what I had two bolts left over after everything was done. Its running fine so I figure GM just included two extra ones just in case.

The upside, the car runs fine now, no hissing, no steam, and the photo above was the hottest it ran since the replacement. Mostly it runs just below the line.

Lastly, what's you guys opinion on Seafoam? I'm thinking about using it to see if I can quite a lifter noise I hear. (If that's a lifter noise)
 
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