• The site migration is complete! Hopefully everything transferred properly from the multiple decades old software we were using before. If you notice any issues please let me know, thanks! Also, I'm still working on things like chatbox, etc so hopefully those will be working in the next week or two.

New double roller installed

Loftus1995

Loftus1995

New member
We are installing a new cam and with it a double roller chain. We got the new cam installed but with the timing chain we ran into some issues.
A spacer came with the chain and if we put it on the crankshaft the chain is not straight at all and wont roll smooth. Are we missing a step? Also the chain tensioner isnt made for a double chain is there a new one I will have to buy for the extra width?

Last question I got, the front cover isnt going on all the way I never read about having to get a new one, we checked everything over its just not wanting to go on straight can anyone help??
May not be the correct topic area but its for a turbo build.
 


For the cover you'll need to stack gaskets or machine it.

From zzp:

The single row set is a direct drop in replacement for the factory timing set. Simply remove the factory crank and cam sprockets, with the chain, transfer the cam positioner magnet from the factory cam sprocket to the new roller sprocket, and install the new timing set.

To run the *double roller, the balance shaft gear must be removed. To save additional weight the balance shaft can removed altogether but this requires plugging the rear oiling hole. The Rollmaster has a much tighter fit, so the timing chain tensioner is no longer used.

Double chain sets are required for engines running valve springs higher than 105 pound.

*Due to potential front cover clearance issues on some cars, we recommend running (2) front cover gaskets -or- (1) ZZP garlock front cover gasket and our machined oil pump cover when installing the double roller.
The Cam position sensor magnet pushes in from the backside in the hole that is recessed.
 
Theres threads about installing a double roller. They say you need to remove certain parts, and that you need a new machined oil pump cover.
 


take the rollmaster double roller crank gear to the machine shop with the stock crank gear and have them match the camfer of the stock crank gear.
 
Reptile said:
The fact that they still sell it like this bothers the crap out of me.
Click to expand...
They sell it like that because an Australian company makes the double roller and it's correct for the Ausssie 3800
Obviously not worth the time and money to them to sell a U.S. Version.
 
231FUN said:
They sell it like that because an Australian company makes the double roller and it's correct for the Ausssie 3800
Obviously not worth the time and money to them to sell a U.S. Version.
Click to expand...

it would take so little effort for them to correct the problem with the camfer.
 
231FUN said:
They sell it like that because an Australian company makes the double roller and it's correct for the Ausssie 3800
Obviously not worth the time and money to them to sell a U.S. Version.
Click to expand...

I'm aware of that....I'm saying that when zzp sells them, they should be sold so that you don't have to modify them more to make it right.
I figured this out close to 8 years ago, after my crank gear split in half.
It takes 5 minutes to machine them, there's no reason for it IMO.
 
Reptile said:
I'm aware of that....I'm saying that when zzp sells them, they should be sold so that you don't have to modify them more to make it right.
I figured this out close to 8 years ago, after my crank gear split in half.
It takes 5 minutes to machine them, there's no reason for it IMO.
Click to expand...
Yeah I figured you were... Obviously not worth the time and money for zzp to do it either,people keep buying them as is.
 


Reptile said:
The fact that they still sell it like this bothers the crap out of me.
Click to expand...

This is candidate for the LIKE button!

lol...

what bothers me even more is someone modding without doing all the necessary research first! There's got to be hundreds of links including YouTube vids on the DOUBLE ROLLER add to a 3800. So come on!... Really?

sorry OP, but you deserve it!
 
This is what could happen if you don't machine the gear like it NEEDS to be...The only thing that held it together was the oil pump. I drove it home 40 miles like this, and it's a wonder that I didn't lose an engine. Made a LOT of noise.

sprocket.jpg


This is with a machined cover, and double gasket. It'll still rub...
Frtcover4.jpg
 
Ouch! I remember those pics :(


What's good to eat? (Disk)... Lolz
How many of those million recipes have you tried?
 
LOL....I honestly don't remember.
Most of it was crap that I won't eat anyway, we've moved on to summer grilling/smoking now. I've got my own for those. :)
 
the gear splitting is a major flaw of the old rollmaster kits with the oil pump drive reliefs causing an excessively thin wall thickness at the 9 keyway slots....the chamfer hitting the crank fillet and mushrooming the gear just helps start and propagate the fractures. its the primary reason RM bought out JP's line with their two piece crank sprocket.

proper machining is always good but it seems the two piece does handle the incorrect fitment quite well.

I remember pricing it out to buy 10 sets and machine em all but I don't see many folks wanting to spring for nearly an extra 100$

if I got my lathe up and running I could probably do it but its not worth my time as it were lol

well aside from doing it for me I did my part via years of checking and even contacting s fellow buick nut down under on an obscure invite only talldeck commodore forum and sharing the modsand pics on Cgp

for some reason the aussie cranks are slightly different.

that said at least the 442's new rear engine will finally prove my iwis/jp gear theory right or not but I believe it will work just fine.

with the properly machined crank and cam sprocket you get the correct stack height at the crank (belt grooves are in the correct spot), a bit looser clearance from the magnet to cam sensor (no change to sensor effectiveness). and you get at least .020+" pin to cover clearance with the paper cover gasket and the steel felpro (block side of paper gasket) from the cs9917 kit...with the stock cover.

it might still be smart to pop the pump and inspect it. much like the original buicks the aluminum timing cover/pump housing wears down and you can get quite a bit of slop...yet another reason a good used shortblock is desirable...at least the pump and cover are likely to be fine along with a good used crankshaft.
 


coolone said:
This is candidate for the LIKE button!

lol...

what bothers me even more is someone modding without doing all the necessary research first! There's got to be hundreds of links including YouTube vids on the DOUBLE ROLLER add to a 3800. So come on!... Really?

sorry OP, but you deserve it!
Click to expand...
Im fine with you being angered over me not looking it up but I feel I get more info out of experiences from others than a youtube video that can br less informative on what needs to be done.
 
Here's how mine turned out with 1 metal gasket , 1 surfaced-ground oil pump cover (from gr8racingfool) and machined crank sprocket.

A9150D11-8E48-4F1A-B0B5-DBD899E1D1F4_zps9fuyadnb.jpg

This appears to me like it sits flush against the crank surface - if the chamfer wasn't correct its my understanding there would be a gap
96EA12F9-4C54-4908-B343-60B7083397E7_zpsunmn5krs.jpg

Double vs stock
8E2118BA-5F99-4DA3-A67A-777CC116FA7E_zpstsxtysb4.jpg
 
Im out of state now but it seems like I will have to have something machined??? Ill have to look for someone around me to machine it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top