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My wallet needs health care

You've added as much as mcvey has. :th_thumbsup-wink: I like Tacos also.

mcveys problem is he no respect for any one else's opinion. He thinks he knows it all and everyone else is an idiot. When he takes that attitude it is no longer a discussion it becomes an argument.
I didn't come here to argue with someone like that.

Hahah what? You made a post about a hugely contested issue right now and expect it to go peachy when you know almost nothing about it? I'm sorry I feel the opposite way. If you didn't want to get into a discussion you shouldn't have made a post about it. Come on. Don't be so bloody arrogant. I have plenty of respect for peoples opinions... when they can base them upon fact. You have done none of that. You basically came in and said "The colour red is actually the colour green. That is my opinion and **** you for trying to prove otherwise."

So tell me: Why is this health care a step in the wrong direction? Back it up.
 


And I would like to point out that I rarely if ever watch Fox news or listen to conservative talk shows. Seriously. But Mcvey, you are arguing. Thats what we don't like here, is senseless agression and arguing.

As for folks delcaring that conservatives watch fox and co. too much, it is just as likely that a democrat NEVER look at opposing viewpoints a it is a republican. In fact, I've honestly seen that more than with republicans, but thats probably coincidence.

Healthcare: I prefer it as it is. However, to say that the current US setup is better than Canada's or vice-versa is inaccurate (not only because of the skewed and nicely selected rankings from Canada) but also because of the differeing demographics, population sizes, and other disparities not related to universal healthcare.

However, on the whole, my issue is with the current administration more than anyhtign else. Who are they to think that they can go against what the majority of Americans want, jsut because they are Democrat and hold the majority in congress? They are dispicable. Sadly enough, many republicans would think the same way if the positions were reversed. No, I am not an avid Bush supporter. I do think, though, that he did was needed to be done when it happened.

Can anyone look me in the eye and tell me that they honestly believe a country should limit its growth based on something created in a society VERY different from that of the present one you reside in?[/quote

As a closing note to Matt, I am not saying that we should strictly enforce traditions with no change ever, but I would rather stay the same than change for the negative. Much of politics is "the lesser of two or more evils" so soemone will lose, yes, and things will change, yes, but I myself will strive to keep things going forward, bettering the nation, or blocking that which seeks to degrade it and turn it into something it was neither intended to be, nor should be. (Obama in general.)

I would also love to point my own beliefs out, which may surprise some of you guys, but I've gotta go take care of some auto insurance bullsh!t before work. Maybe in me next post, then.

EDIT: since Mcvey posted before I finished, here is to you, sir: Why is it BETTER? The burden of proof sdoes not rest solely on us.
 
first: Trustee model of representation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
if americans do not like obama, then we'll knew come next election. its only been a year, and many claim hes the worst president in the history of the us. everyone is entitled to their opinions.

second, i get my news from forums or the ap. i dont watch fox or msnbc, because both are equally retarded. but im not going to sit down and watch the biggest pile of **** 'news' channel for opposing viewpoints... political philosophy id think is much better for that kind of stuff
 
You'll only get something resembling the full story if you watch both sides on the same issue, otherwise it'll be skewed.
 
And I would like to point out that I rarely if ever watch Fox news or listen to conservative talk shows. Seriously. But Mcvey, you are arguing. Thats what we don't like here, is senseless agression and arguing.
Yes, I am arguing. I'm trying to have some reasonable political discourse and you seem to be the only person on here that's half-compitent at it. It's a discussion forum why am I not allowed to discuss something I feel so strongly about? I'm not attacking anybody, I'm not trolling anybody, I'm not flaming anybody.

As for folks delcaring that conservatives watch fox and co. too much, it is just as likely that a democrat NEVER look at opposing viewpoints a it is a republican. In fact, I've honestly seen that more than with republicans, but thats probably coincidence.
What? Are you kidding? Fox is basically an echo chamber of Republican talking points and propaganda. They won the right in COURT to lie on the air during their "opinion shows". There is absolutely no "opposing viewpoints" on Fox News. Have you ever watched Glenn Beck? They have Palin as a bloody "correspondent". They are so unbelievably biased you can't even compare it to CNN/MSNBC/CBC/BBC/etc.
Imageshack - foxnews152b.jpg Check that out.

Healthcare: I prefer it as it is. However, to say that the current US setup is better than Canada's or vice-versa is inaccurate (not only because of the skewed and nicely selected rankings from Canada) but also because of the differeing demographics, population sizes, and other disparities not related to universal healthcare.
Skewed selected rankings FROM Canada? Come on. Is it that hard to believe that maybe UHC is a good thing? Find me some first-world countries that don't have a system like it in place. Please. This is a step for your country to join the rest of the first-world in that respect.

However, on the whole, my issue is with the current administration more than anyhtign else. Who are they to think that they can go against what the majority of Americans want, jsut because they are Democrat and hold the majority in congress? They are dispicable. Sadly enough, many republicans would think the same way if the positions were reversed. No, I am not an avid Bush supporter. I do think, though, that he did was needed to be done when it happened.
Earth to you: The majority of Americans do want health care. Look at the polls. If you want me to post some I'd love to. The only one that was "against" the plan was the always right-slanted Rassmussen.
Also: I agree with you on the last part in this paragraph. But why weren't conservative Americans protesting when Bush passed the Patriot Act, warrantless wiretapping, giving even more control to the executive branch, etc? Why now?

Can anyone look me in the eye and tell me that they honestly believe a country should limit its growth based on something created in a society VERY different from that of the present one you reside in?
Don't understand the question, sorry. :( How is this limiting your growth?

As a closing note to Matt, I am not saying that we should strictly enforce traditions with no change ever, but I would rather stay the same than change for the negative. Much of politics is "the lesser of two or more evils" so soemone will lose, yes, and things will change, yes, but I myself will strive to keep things going forward, bettering the nation, or blocking that which seeks to degrade it and turn it into something it was neither intended to be, nor should be. (Obama in general.)
http://image3.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg/image/250w-fix_old_no_new.jpg Go crazy teabagger lady, go!

I would also love to point my own beliefs out, which may surprise some of you guys, but I've gotta go take care of some auto insurance bullsh!t before work. Maybe in me next post, then.

EDIT: since Mcvey posted before I finished, here is to you, sir: Why is it BETTER? The burden of proof sdoes not rest solely on us.
I'd love to hear your personal beliefs. You seem to be one of the few with any idea on what's going on in your own country. Sad as that is I believe you're grossly misinformed on some issues.

Why is it better?
-Lower defecit
-30million+ more insured
-Insurances companies can't deny you coverage for "pre-existing conditions"
-Will lower the # of medical bankruptcies(this doesn't really happen in any other countries... wonder why)
-People can stay on their parents health care plan up until 26(instead of 21)
-You're taking a step forward in the grand scheme of things(don't start the progressive=communist talk, please).
 
MC...it seems to me that you pretty much have Obama's talking points down almost to the letter.

I am a "conservative right-wing nut." I don't like the health care bill because my premiums will be going up and I am going to be taxed more. Why? To help other people, right? I give money directly to charities like the American Cancer societty, Alzeimer's research, etc. because that is what I choose to do. I have no problem helping people who need it, BUT it should be my choice. The simple fact that illegal aliens and drug addicts will benefit from this plan is what bothers me. Why should I have to pay for someone who makes horrible life decisions? I worked my A$$ off in college in order to better my life and guess what, I did. I was working 40+ hours per week to pay for college as I went along, and I got rewarded for it.

I have a job that offers heathcare...Why?...because I worked for it. I had to work for 3 months JUST TO PAY MY TAXES!!!! I understand that there is a cost of doing business, but that is a pretty high cost.

It might be easy for you to criticize the US system because....well, you don't live here. If our healthcare is so bad why do you gov't officials come here for procedures? The US has a pretty good system and all this talk about insurance companies fleecing people is BS. Insurance companies, in general, operate at a profit margin of 3-5%, which is quite low in the general scheme of things. Most businesses operate in the neighborhood of 15-25%. Why have permiums gone up you ask? Well doctors get sued quite often, the hospital's have to recoup costs from unpaid patients and the cost of medical technology has gone up....the insurance companies have to pay for some of these losses.

In 2004, I was involved in a very serious motorcycle accident, and I was treated very fairly by the insurance company. In 24 hours I racked up a bill (Including life flight and surgery) of over $50,000. I only had to pay for $350 for the accident. I would say that is pretty fair.

As far as fining people for not buying insurance....that is UNCONSTITUTIONAL!!!! Just to do this, the IRS will be hiring give or take 16,000 people....I bet that they will be paid at least $30,000 per year.

In closing, I am glad that you are criticizing a system that you do not/will not live under. I could rant all day long about the Canadien system, but I won't as I don't really care about it, it doesn't effect me....my system does. I hope you can at least understand my point of view, even if you don't agree with it.
 


where are you getting 3-5% profit margins for insurance companies? ive seen lots of data, but i havent seen 3-5%, except from conservative based media
 
MC...it seems to me that you pretty much have Obama's talking points down almost to the letter.

So true.

mcvey is the one who complains because we don't look at both sides. It seems he may have that problem.

CNN/MSNBC/CBC/BBC yeah mcvey that's the way to get the truth.
 
So true.

mcvey is the one who complains because we don't look at both sides. It seems he may have that problem.

CNN/MSNBC/CBC/BBC yeah mcvey that's the way to get the truth.

Show me the other side then. You're not refuting anything. Don't just provide anecdotal evidence either, show me some cold hard facts from the other side. And please, what talking points are you talking about? Scratching my head on that one.

Also where did I say "CNN/MSNBC/CBC/BBC" are the ways to get the truth? I said it doesn't even compare to Fox News. Go watch Al-Jazeera if you want some actual news.
 
You didn't get mad when the Supreme Court stopped a legal recount and appointed a President.

You didn't get mad when Cheney allowed Energy company officials to dictate energy policy.

You didn't get mad when a covert CIA operative got outed.

You didn't get mad when the Patriot Act got passed. UNCONSTITUTIONAL!!!

You didn't get mad when we illegally invaded a country that posed no threat to us.

You didn't get mad when we spent over 600 billion(and counting) on said illegal war.

You didn't get mad when over 10 billion dollars just disappeared in Iraq.

You didn't get mad when you saw the Abu Grahib photos.

You didn't get mad when you found out we were torturing people.

You didn't get mad when the government was illegally wiretapping Americans.

You didn't get mad when we didn't catch Bin Laden.

You didn't get mad when you saw the horrible conditions at Walter Reed.

You didn't get mad when we let a major US city drown.

You didn't get mad when the deficit hit the trillion dollar mark.

You finally got mad when.. when... wait for it... when the government decided that people in America deserved the right to see a doctor if they are sick. Yes, illegal wars, lies, corruption, torture, stealing your tax dollars to make the rich richer, are all ok with you but helping other Americans.........That is just un-American
 
You didn't get mad when the Supreme Court stopped a legal recount and appointed a President. Seriously...get over it...how long are you really going to keep blaming Bush, I have stopped blaming Clinton for making a mockery of the Presidency with his philandering tendancies...but then again, seeing what Hillary looks like, I don't really blame him.

You didn't get mad when Cheney allowed Energy company officials to dictate energy policy. Yes I did! Didn't Obama just open up a big area for oil drilling and off-shore exploration....that was an idea that Bush had right? I actually agree with him on that!

You didn't get mad when a covert CIA operative got outed. Don't really remember that one...is that the Rove issue?

You didn't get mad when the Patriot Act got passed. UNCONSTITUTIONAL!!! I agree with you, but my rights haven't been impacted with that one...I have nothing to hide so not sure about that one!

You didn't get mad when we illegally invaded a country that posed no threat to us. Nope, just when we let one invade us...Mexico! But then again, if we just make them all citizens than they will continue to send the majority of their money to Mexico right....money that could have been spent in our economy.

You didn't get mad when we spent over 600 billion(and counting) on said illegal war. Yup, not real happy with the Iraq thing, but remember that a DEMOCRAT CONGRESS voted to support said "illegal" war on the same presumption that Irad had WMD's.

You didn't get mad when over 10 billion dollars just disappeared in Iraq. As opposed 1.5 trillion in national debt created by the end of the Bush Era and the beginning of the Obama Era under a Democrat Congress that wrote the budget....Fail on that one too!! Remember that President's don't write law's and budget's without Congress' approval!! FAIL Again!!!

You didn't get mad when you saw the Abu Grahib photos. Really....that bothers you, guess that you must have been completely furious about the beheading of American citizens in Iraq by Al Queda...

You didn't get mad when you found out we were torturing people. Please see above comment for this retarded statement!! The people we interrogated ("tortured" for you libs) are alive, right?

You didn't get mad when the government was illegally wiretapping Americans. Did you get wiretapped...by the way if it is cellular phones, guess what...not a wiretap, I can listen to phone conversations using fairly simple scanner technology...FTL again!

You didn't get mad when we didn't catch Bin Laden. Yup, I am mad, I want his A$$ dead, not caught! That way we don't have to give him Miranda rights and send him to a civilian court....meant for CITIZENS not enemy combatants!!

You didn't get mad when you saw the horrible conditions at Walter Reed. Yes I am, the least we can do is afford people, who did something for the country, good healthcare....by the way, doesn't the government run Walter Reid...what a great example of government healthcare!!

You didn't get mad when we let a major US city drown. Seriously....if you build a city below sea level it might be expected to go under water if there is a large storm surge....where was your "grief" when the majority of the northeast got hit by an ice storm causing many deaths (1998, I believe)...I was without power for a month during the middle of winter because of the storm. We received little or no help from the government and you know what, we got together with our neighbors to make the best of a bad situation! As someone VERY familiar with FEMA procedures, FEMA cannot be mobolized without first being requested by the parties needing the help....also, why would you send people directly into a Hurricane, that would just add more casualties. FEMA is designed to be used AFTER a major disaster.

You didn't get mad when the deficit hit the trillion dollar mark. Yes I did, I think it was stupid for Bush to do it...and Obama is making it worse with higher taxes and more entitlements.

You finally got mad when.. when... wait for it... when the government decided that people in America deserved the right to see a doctor if they are sick. Yes, illegal wars, lies, corruption, torture, stealing your tax dollars to make the rich richer, are all ok with you but helping other Americans.........That is just un-American Not un-American, I just like people to make the CHOICE to help other people...that is American...people doing what is right because they want to, not because something thinks that they have a "right" to be taken care of by the governmant. I can't wait till the government takes everything away from you...maybe then you will see what conservatives who want less government are talking about.

For the record...next time you write about what makes me mad look at yourself first, then ask the question...."Do I really know what this person is thinking?"....otherwise keep your mouth shut as you have no idea who I am or what I believe in.
 
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Go watch Al-Jazeera if you want some actual news.


That just sums up your entire point of view....American is bad down with America. Have you seriously spent any time watching Al Jazeera? That is some slanted stuff. Every other account is about how great Al Queda is and how horrible the United States is. I would hope that you seriously don't listen to that for your news source.

I watch all of the news networks, CNN, Fox News, MSNBC, although I admit to spending most of my time on Fox as they at least try to show both sides. I also check all of thier websites and try to make the best informed decisions about everything that is reported.
 
That just sums up your entire point of view....American is bad down with America. Have you seriously spent any time watching Al Jazeera? That is some slanted stuff. Every other account is about how great Al Queda is and how horrible the United States is. I would hope that you seriously don't listen to that for your news source.

I watch all of the news networks, CNN, Fox News, MSNBC, although I admit to spending most of my time on Fox as they at least try to show both sides. I also check all of thier websites and try to make the best informed decisions about everything that is reported.

What the... have you ever watched Al Jazeera? You can't talk about "slanted stuff" and then explain how you watch Fox News because they "show both sides". That's ridiculous and really brings to light how you view things. There is no sense in even discussing anything with you anymore. Your mind is already set and there's no rational way of changing it. No matter how much proof/evidence is brought in front of you you won't give it a chance.
Imageshack - foxnews152b.jpg

I'm guessing you're a creationist as well. Or do they call it "intelligent design" now?

For the record...next time you write about what makes me mad look at yourself first, then ask the question...."Do I really know what this person is thinking?"....otherwise keep your mouth shut as you have no idea who I am or what I believe in.
He wasn't talking about YOU, personally. More of the royal "you". Oh you also need to do some research on tax cuts and "entitlements".
Hint: trickle down economics does not work
Also:
-Terrorists have been tried in civilan courts for awhile now. It's not a new practice.
-UHC bill is projected to cut the defecit. Not increase it.
-You really need to drop the "**** you, got mine" attitude. Makes you look like a dick.
-"Philandering tendencies"... wow. Let's not even get into that one.
-I think you need to do some research on what the GOP says and what they actually do("small government"? Try the opposite under their watch).
-Would you like to start listing the things the government runs?
-You're comparing an "ice storm" in the NE with a hurricane in NO... come on. Really? Do you understand at all what-No. No you don't.

Get into this more late tonight when I get back to work.
 
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What the... have you ever watched Al Jazeera? You can't talk about "slanted stuff" and then explain how you watch Fox News because they "show both sides". What I said is that Fox at least try's. I know they have a right slant....maybe you missed that.

I'm guessing you're a creationist as well. Or do they call it "intelligent design" now? Nope..try again, I think it is actually a mix of both as the scientific evidence to support some of Darmin's theoris are right, likek natural selection. I also believe that God created us in his image though, I don't think that these ideas are mutually exclusive!


He wasn't talking about YOU, personally. More of the royal "you". Oh you also need to do some research on tax cuts and "entitlements".
Hint: trickle down economics does not work
Also:
-Terrorists have been tried in civilan courts for awhile now. It's not a new practice. YUP, and during WW2 terrorists actions were tried in military tribunals, right?
-UHC bill is projected to cut the defecit. Not increase it. Just like medicade/medicare was supposed to?
-You really need to drop the "**** you, got mine" attitude. Makes you look like a dick. Maybe, but I work anywhere from 50-70 hours a week to provide for my family, why should I have to provide for someone elses?
-"Philandering tendencies"... wow. Let's not even get into that one. Why? Because it is true, on both sides actually....if you can't be with your wife, then get a divorce instead of cheating, really grow up and have some responsibility.
-I think you need to do some research on what the GOP says and what they actually do("small government"? Try the opposite under their watch).
Have I said I agreed with the GOP? I said I am a conservative, not a republican...or can't you make that distinction?
-Would you like to start listing the things the government runs?No, because the list is too long and would shut down the server, but that doesn't mean I agree with it!!
-You're comparing an "ice storm" in the NE with a hurricane in NO... come on. Really? Do you understand at all what-No. No you don't.
Yeah, I do....the idiots that live in New Orleans ignored the warnings of a coming hurricane and stayed in their homes...they are the retards...I do understand that more people were effected by the Ice storm that covered at least 3 states and more people than lived in New Orleans...at temperatures well below freezing (below 0 for the people who use the metric, which is a better form of measurement). Was there more damage caused by the hurricane...of course, but that's not the point. The point is that there are tradegies all over the world that are much worse htan New Orleans and guess who is always there to help...The United States...where are Canada's Carriers and Marines to help...oh wait you have no Carriers...you rely on the United Staes to protect you.

Get into this more late tonight when I get back to work.


I look forward to it...I always enjoy a good debate...Cheers!!
 
Your first mistake is that you think this was directed to you. It is a general list of unacceptable things that has stripped my rights/money( Obama now has to raise taxes to pay for bush's war). I am well aware that its not the president who passes laws but sets the tone of the administration's direction and what direction he would like congress to go in. Do you really think that loosing habius corpus (because of the patriot act) has not affected you. Dont forget that most of the health bill wont go into affect until 2014 and by then you wont know what rights you have lost from it. The governments way is to implement things slowly so you wont notice. They didn't just start kicking doors down after the patriot act was passed. But if you get caught speeding now and the cop thinks you look shady/millitant/or have a NRA sticker on your car, he can arrest you without any reason, call the Feds/ATF/whatever, and say you look like a terrorist.
I ran a home improvement company at the time of the patriot acts passing, and it had a program called TIPS that I and other professionals (cable/gas/phone workers) who were working in your houses, had to report to the justice department if we thought that you (our customer ) looked shady to us.
Just think, you piss off your flooring contractor and he makes a phone call to homeland security on how you act like a terroist..... NOW THAT IS SCARY BIG GOVERMENT. But thank god that provision was killed.. but not without a lot of republican pushback.

"TIPS, or Terrorism Information and Prevention System, is the latest brainchild of the Bush administration in the war against terrorism. If the media accounts are to believed, TIPS is crafted to transform us into a nation of meddlers, busybodies, and snoops — each of us spying on the rest. By next month, the administration plans to recruit a million volunteers to serve as government informants in ten test cities. If the plan works, the goal is to enroll four percent of all Americans, or about eleven million domestic spies across the nation." (written in 2002 by ap)

I think that the democrats and republicans are the same in government and i dont trust either.... but unlike lots of people who are *****ing/ranting about big government now because of a health bill I was *****ing since 9/11 about big government..

My biggest problem is the fact that the bush administration removed our rights one at a time for 8 years(yes with the dems help) and no republicans/tea party/Independents *****ed...... but whooooh try to help middle class working family's not get F*cked by health insurance companies and its a government take over.

I distrust the government a lot more than the average joe, but if i had a choice i would rather waste my tax money on helping "poor, stupid, middle class, whites, blacks, Hispanics, rednecks, liberal nuts ,right wing nuts, non working welfare slobs,middle class families, or any other person who is an American. Americans in my book, come before any other foreign war-oil company-quake survivors-tsunami survivors-CIA funded Al Qaeda militants- or any other stupid foreign thing Reagan-Bush-Clinton-bush-Obama have waisted my hard earned money on in the last 20 years. It drives me crazy when so called "Patriots" will throw other Americans under the bus so their political party can give our tax money to other countries,companies,dictators, who dont give a sh*t about Americans.

But when it comes down to it... who cares, when your ripping down the highway at 80, supercharger whining, and tool blasting in the backround, leaving a honduuuh in the dust,:th_nanana: thats why we are all here talking.:) I would hope our political spats dont change a thing when it comes to cars and exchanging info/help for our fellow car nuts.
 
Your first mistake is that you think this was directed to you. It is a general list of unacceptable things that has stripped my rights/money( Obama now has to raise taxes to pay for bush's war). I am well aware that its not the president who passes laws but sets the tone of the administration's direction and what direction he would like congress to go in. Do you really think that loosing habius corpus (because of the patriot act) has not affected you. Dont forget that most of the health bill wont go into affect until 2014 and by then you wont know what rights you have lost from it. The governments way is to implement things slowly so you wont notice. They didn't just start kicking doors down after the patriot act was passed. But if you get caught speeding now and the cop thinks you look shady/millitant/or have a NRA sticker on your car, he can arrest you without any reason, call the Feds/ATF/whatever, and say you look like a terrorist.
I ran a home improvement company at the time of the patriot acts passing, and it had a program called TIPS that I and other professionals (cable/gas/phone workers) who were working in your houses, had to report to the justice department if we thought that you (our customer ) looked shady to us.
Just think, you piss off your flooring contractor and he makes a phone call to homeland security on how you act like a terroist..... NOW THAT IS SCARY BIG GOVERMENT. But thank god that provision was killed.. but not without a lot of republican pushback.

"TIPS, or Terrorism Information and Prevention System, is the latest brainchild of the Bush administration in the war against terrorism. If the media accounts are to believed, TIPS is crafted to transform us into a nation of meddlers, busybodies, and snoops — each of us spying on the rest. By next month, the administration plans to recruit a million volunteers to serve as government informants in ten test cities. If the plan works, the goal is to enroll four percent of all Americans, or about eleven million domestic spies across the nation." (written in 2002 by ap)

I think that the democrats and republicans are the same in government and i dont trust either.... but unlike lots of people who are *****ing/ranting about big government now because of a health bill I was *****ing since 9/11 about big government..

My biggest problem is the fact that the bush administration removed our rights one at a time for 8 years(yes with the dems help) and no republicans/tea party/Independents *****ed...... but whooooh try to help middle class working family's not get F*cked by health insurance companies and its a government take over.

I distrust the government a lot more than the average joe, but if i had a choice i would rather waste my tax money on helping "poor, stupid, middle class, whites, blacks, Hispanics, rednecks, liberal nuts ,right wing nuts, non working welfare slobs,middle class families, or any other person who is an American. Americans in my book, come before any other foreign war-oil company-quake survivors-tsunami survivors-CIA funded Al Qaeda militants- or any other stupid foreign thing Reagan-Bush-Clinton-bush-Obama have waisted my hard earned money on in the last 20 years. It drives me crazy when so called "Patriots" will throw other Americans under the bus so their political party can give our tax money to other countries,companies,dictators, who dont give a sh*t about Americans.

But when it comes down to it... who cares, when your ripping down the highway at 80, supercharger whining, and tool blasting in the backround, leaving a honduuuh in the dust,:th_nanana: thats why we are all here talking.:) I would hope our political spats dont change a thing when it comes to cars and exchanging info/help for our fellow car nuts.

I'll tell you one thing....if the politicians could all just get together and talk out things like we can here without getting all freaked out, I think a lot more would get done! Let put them all in GXP's, and GTP's and run them down the highway....maybe it would losen them up a bit and help us to get things done. This is the way our government is supposed to work, people with differing opinions talking and trying to understand each other"s point of view instead of calling each other Communists or the party of no...I hope I am wrong with what is going to happen with health care...but we will see when it happens!!

DRIVE ON AND LISTEN TO THE MOTOR!!!
 


I'll tell you one thing....if the politicians could all just get together and talk out things like we can here without getting all freaked out, I think a lot more would get done! Let put them all in GXP's, and GTP's and run them down the highway....maybe it would losen them up a bit and help us to get things done. This is the way our government is supposed to work, people with differing opinions talking and trying to understand each other"s point of view instead of calling each other Communists or the party of no...I hope I am wrong with what is going to happen with health care...but we will see when it happens!!

DRIVE ON AND LISTEN TO THE MOTOR!
!

:th_thumbsup-double: I couldn't agree more.
 
Lol. Sandman... this whole discussion is revolving around trying to be unbiased and such, and condemning people for not having their own minds to work with.

Freepers, Birthers, Morons of all stripe, You didn't get mad... - Democratic Underground

Mcvey, I have to heartily disagree with you on your apparant disregard for creationsim. Firstly, do you seriously think we could have evolved the functions we have? All the creatures that "perfectly adapted" to an environment? Why would they have ever went there if they were not? Why couldn't they have been designed to do exactly whsat they do...after all, they do it with much better results than we can. The shrimp,for example, has the best vision and most complex eye in the animal kingdom. We cannot match it with all of our science. Blood clotting? You won't believe how complex that system is, and it isnt just blood drying to cover the hole. If you are remotely interested in that argumenyt, I urge you to go to your local library and find or request a book called "Darwin's Black Box" and no,itsnot a christian resource. It uses the word god only once,to let the reader know the author doesnt believe in it.

If you keep an open mind you'd be amazed at how much sense the intelligient design/ creation argument makes. You have heard of the T-rex bone with red blood cells and vessels in tact, right? Or trilobytes having footprints in one layer of rock and their bodies in another? Or perhaps the tree trunks that span many layers?

What I'm getting at, and what I meant up therewhen i said that it is just as likely for conservatives to dote on Foxand never lookelsewhere as it is for a liberal to never look away from one source either, is that how you interprete the evidence makes more difference than the fact that we all have the same evidence in the end. Look at mine, and give it a shot, and you wont regret it. At least youll be more informed, if nothing else.
 
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