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Monitoring IC temps

IndeedSS

IndeedSS

SS-DD Level Member
What type of device/setup would be inexpensive, but more importantly reliable?

Brian's Fast IAT got me wondering about this. Since you would want something small so as not to mess with the flow, it seems to me you could use a small thermister in the coolant flow, and use it's variable resistance to trigger LED(s).

This weekend, TooMCH's IC pump quit working and the coolant boiled over. His gauges showed high KR, but it wasn't until he arrived at the mod day, that we verified what he had suspected. Seems like even a cheap triggering device would be a big asset.

Any thought from those of you with creative minds?
 


Well if you use a resistive device, you'd either have to build something that could interpret the voltage as a temperature or buy a pre-made set-up.

There was a thread on ClubGP some time back about someone that put in a dual set up to see the effectiveness of the IC. But, unfortunately, I do not recall what he used. But if I recall, it was something really simple like one of those indoor/outdoor temp set ups.
 
I've seen that thread with the dual setup as well. Wow that was a long time ago. I was thinking more of using the thermister so at a certain temp, or in this case resistance it would light a diode. Even a series of LED's each with a different value fixed resistor. This way as the temp rises another LED lights up. One would have to gather some data (resistance versus temp) so you know when the last LED lights up then something has gone wrong.

A small flow detector woud work too, but since the IAT sensor was fresh on my mind that's where I went first.:D

It just seems to be bad idea to run an IC without knowing whether the fliud is moving, or at minimum that said fliud is not going above a certain threshold.
 
I agree, it seems rather risky to not have some type of monitoring going on. And your idea sounds pretty decent. Just some quick go/no go visual indication. Thats simpler and just as effective for the purposes making sure everything thing is in working order. I suppose even something to make sure that pump is working too would work. Of course if it does stop working obviously your temps are going up real quick, but it may afford you the extra few seconds or so to drop out of a run and shut things down.

If I was going to monitor the pump, it would have to be something that would monitor the rotation or pump action rather than a voltage/current flow. Id rather know the thing is spinning over whether or not there is current flowing.
 
SyntheticShield said:
I agree, it seems rather risky to not have some type of monitoring going on. And your idea sounds pretty decent. Just some quick go/no go visual indication. Thats simpler and just as effective for the purposes making sure everything thing is in working order. I suppose even something to make sure that pump is working too would work. Of course if it does stop working obviously your temps are going up real quick, but it may afford you the extra few seconds or so to drop out of a run and shut things down.

If I was going to monitor the pump, it would have to be something that would monitor the rotation or pump action rather than a voltage/current flow. Id rather know the thing is spinning over whether or not there is current flowing.
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I agree. I've been looking for an inline flow detector, but have only found ones to small in diameter like this Gems Sensors FT-110 7.9 GPM Flow Rate Sensor or in the $100 of dollars for commercial sensors.

The GM pump is very quiet, so you can't hear it running. Other than an inline flow detector, do you have any thoughts on how to monitor the physical turning of the pump motor?
 
Well, I say it like it would be an easy task, but it may not be as I have not seen a GM pump in person. But the concept is simple enough. Just use a hall effect sensor to monitor the pump/motor shaft. That said you would need some sort of trigger device on the shaft or something pre-existing on the shaft that could used as a trigger, such as a notch or something like that. It would be the same principle in which the crankshaft position sensor works. The vanes on the back side of the balancer trigger the CPS. Cut out spots change the state of the CPS, and it changes state again when the tabs run between the slots in the sensor.

That all said, I like your flow detector even better. Though you could get away with a low cost one if you could find a small diameter pipe that had s spring action lever in it with an external tab or lever. The flow would act on the spring lever and cause the external one to swing one way when there was flow. Mount a hall effect sensor or even a micro switch on the pipe so that when there is flow the lever acts on the hall effect sensor or micro switch to close a circuit, such as power to an LED or something like that.

You could even go further and have a set up where if the lever went the other direction (indicating no flow) it could disrupt the boost bypass solenoid and limit boost. Oh if only I had a machine shop again.
 


One reason I've never gone with an intercooler...they're an awesome idea, and the work great. But if one thing goes wrong you could be hosed. The LED showing that the pump is on will work whether the pump works or not...

The IAT type resistor would be ideal for looking at temps given how small it is. The only fluid it's rated for though is an oil, so I'm not so sure what you could use to monitor the temps unless you could use a coating on the wires.
 
The GM pump is sealed so there would be no modding it, although that is a nice idea. However to continue with your thought. I wonder how much of an energy field is generated but the pump and if it would be detectable. I used to build field strength meters to detect RF. Thanks Scotty! If that pump motor isn't sheilded too heavily, there may be a way to place a pickup coil close enough or even wrapped around the housing to make high sensitivity meter movement move. No external power required for a FS meter, and no physical tapping into the system itself.

Thanks for making me think in a totally different direction.

Brian, I agree with you on the IC. It's the reason I talked myself out of my Stage 3 last year. However with a scan gauge, and some type of system to let me know the pump is working, I feel relatively safe. Anything can happen and usually does to me. This is why this time I want to monitor the pump...somehow.
As far at the IAT sensor, I was thinking it could be epoxied into a 3/4 PVC pipe so that the wires or wire entry point wouldn't be exposed and just let it do it's thing. Do you know the effective temp range, min max resistance, and whether it increases or decreases with temp?
 
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Thats why I suggested something other than a device monitoring whether voltage or current was present. Either could be and it still may not be enough to spin the pump but you would have an indication that the thing is working. So a flow detector or something that could monitor pump shaft rotation would be much better way to determine if the pump was working or not, and given the possible complexities of pump shaft monitoring, the flow detector would be a better route as it is checking the work of the pump itself.

You could probably even take the detector a bit further and use some type of variable resistance tied to the lever to give an indication of actual flow rather than just a yes/no indication and it could be just something as simple as an LED bar graph.
 
IndeedSS said:
The GM pump is sealed so there would be no modding it, although that is a nice idea. However to continue with your thought. I wonder how much of an energy field is generated but the pump and if it would be detectable. I used to build field strenght meters to detect RF. Thanks Scotty! If that pump motor isn't sheilded too heavily, there may be a way to place a pickup coil close enough or even wrapped around the housing to make high sensitivity meter movement move. No external power required for a FS meter, and no physical tapping into the system itself.

Thanks for making me think in a totally different direction.
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I like that idea as well, the only possible issue I could see from it would be other RF sources such as the ignition system or voltage transients in the electrical system, but if it works it would be a sweet idea for sure. The more current that thing pulls the more of a field there will be as Im sure you know. If the RF occurs at a specific frequency you could even put in discrete circuitry to detect that as a type of confirmation it is the pump running rather than some type of interference from engine operation.
 
IndeedSS said:
Brian, I agree with you on the IC. It's the reason I talked myself out of my Stage 3 last year. However with a scan gauge, and some type of system to let me know the pump is working, I feel relatively safe. Anything can happen and usually does to me. This is why this time I want to monitor the pump...somehow.
As far at the IAT sensor, I was thinking it could be epoxied into a 3/4 PVC pipe so that the wires or wire entry point wouldn't be exposed and just let it do it's thing. Do you know the effective temp range, min max resistance, and whether it increases or decreases with temp?
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Operating temperatures for the ones I use are -58*F up to 350*F. I believe I can shoot you some more information on where to find a type of liquid immersion element if you're interested. You could put in a type of probe if you'd wish instead of trying to jerry rig an element like I do....since they are meant for open air applications. If you know what you're looking for, then it should be an easy task.
 


definitely interested in more info on the thermistors. IF the temp sensor can be made cheap enough, then I wouldn't be against having one of those along with the pickup coil type, since I know those can be done cheaply if there a strong enough field generated.
 
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You can slip the ss probe under the hose into the coolant stream. Been using them for years. Just under $20 a pop, you'll need 2
 


Ron Vogel said:
Mine are in the car all the time. You have to replace the battery every 6 months because they are on all the time.
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excellent. I'm going to try one of these. Figuring if I monitor anywhere in the system, it should give me a pretty good indication whether the pump is running or not. I understand running two, to monitor the both the cooled and the the heated liquid but I'm only really concerned to know if there is an unexplained temp spike (pump not running).

thanks again for posting the info!
 
Here ya go Lee! Its a little pricey over the $20 gauges, but displays 4 sensors of choice at the same time. You have to buy each module for each input you want but has endless possibilities and is a sweet gauge.

PLX Devices Inc. - DM-100 52mm Digital OLED Universal Gauge

Links for the sensor modules

http://www.plxdevices.com/products/sm/ait/
http://www.plxdevices.com/products/sm/fluidtemp/

This is also the gauge/wideband I will have in the Cutlass when I start working on it again. They also have a newer DM200 gauge that is larger and displays more, also a scan-gauge one that allows you to use their wideband with it to display wideband data at the same time as other scan data, pretty sweet setup and keeps from needing multiple gauges, but again pricey
 
I was checking those out as well, but I think its a bit of a shell game. You buy the main unit, whether it be the DM-100 or 200 model, then you have to buy all those add on modules to make it work? And the DM200 Model is over $300 bucks, and that is before adding on the special attachments for each sensor.

I like the idea, but I think they are bilkin anyone who purchases all those components from them. If they were cheaper, I could understand, but I do not wish to have some 1 1/2' Long brick sitting under my floor board cause of all the modules I would like to purchase.

An interesting idea, but just to darn pricey.

I think Ron's version is the best way go. Unless there was some way to hook up say a tranny temp sensor or h2o pressure sensor to the hose to monitor pressure and tempture. That would give you pretty good readouts?
 
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