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Modding to 300 hp



Dont get WBS tune unless you want it to take forever. My top swap tune from there had even lower timing than stock. I added like 6* timing and still no knock. Really it was just a GTP tune with better tranny tables and torque management. I'd recommend a tuner.
 
JoRoW99 said:
Dont get WBS tune unless you want it to take forever. My top swap tune from there had even lower timing than stock. I added like 6* timing and still no knock. Really it was just a GTP tune with better tranny tables and torque management. I'd recommend a tuner.
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Our tune takes a max of 2 days to ship unless we're missing info such as a VIN or something like that. If yours took longer you have my apologies. The old site didn't save VIN numbers a lot and sometimes we wouldn't noticed right away.

You would have less timing than stock because we don't want to run L36 timing on an engine that's now supercharged. You might be able to run more timing but someone else might get knock without bumping it up at all. There has to be some buffer built in there for safety.
 
JoRoW99 said:
Dont get WBS tune unless you want it to take forever. My top swap tune from there had even lower timing than stock. I added like 6* timing and still no knock. Really it was just a GTP tune with better tranny tables and torque management. I'd recommend a tuner.
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Really? I have ordered various parts from there and never once had an issue with the product arriving in a timely matter. I just don't see why a PCM would be any different. *Shrug*

OP I have run a ZZP, DHP, and Intense PCM. I have no compliants of any and all functioned as advertised. I know people who have run the Overkill and W body store PCM and enjoyed them just as much. Honestly, I think they are so closely similar that I would just go with whose cheapest. Regardless, the best tune for the car is always a custom one, but for mods that don't involve a cam swap a shelf PCM will suffice IMO.
 
just get it dyno tuned and yeah you can boost bigger displacement but what i meant was that when 2 cars race if the smaller displacement one doesnt have boost then it has less of a chance
 


Mike Kopstain said:
You're like the guy that calls a girl fat and then when she takes offense to it you tell her you were just joking. There's nothing funny about it. I don't get the joke and there doesn't seem to be anything good natured about the way you try to set people up. All I see is someone itching for a chance to show other people how much he knows.

And the fact that you like me is irrelevant to me calling you out. Just stop what you're doing. Three days here and I already have your number.
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I didn't call you fat. I asked you to explain what you meant by the LS4 having more top end than a similarly powered L67.
Stock for stock the LS4 has more top end, period. But when an L67 is making that kind of power, the curve has shifted enough for it to be a wash.

I don't itch at the chance to tell people how much I know, rather I like to hang people on their own words for a little bit of a laugh. I see too many people read/regurgitate incorrect stuff all the time. It gets passed around as fact and is a bit of a pet peeve of mine. After so many years of trying to politely educate people, only to have the debate turn into a sh*tfest, I just gave up and I enjoy just messing around.
I didn't mean to target you it just kind of happened.

I won't come after you anymore, you're a good guy and I have a lot of respect for you. I used to buy SHO parts from you and I told a lot of people that you were the guy to go to.

So you have my apologies, Mike.
 
Mike Kopstain said:
Our tune takes a max of 2 days to ship unless we're missing info such as a VIN or something like that. If yours took longer you have my apologies. The old site didn't save VIN numbers a lot and sometimes we wouldn't noticed right away.

You would have less timing than stock because we don't want to run L36 timing on an engine that's now supercharged. You might be able to run more timing but someone else might get knock without bumping it up at all. There has to be some buffer built in there for safety.
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Sorry im still just a little butthurt over my topswap gaskets taking 3 weeks to get to my house. I understand why there was low timing but theres nowhere in there to put in the mods you have like other vendors, at least in the top swap gasket kit set. Im sure if you knew that i had headers, ported heads and ported supercharger with a stock pulley you would have bumped it, if you do custom stuff like that.
 
going with that custom of a tune you shouldve emailed them about what parts you are going with. just saying. Vender tunes are like a stock tune in the sense that they need to be safe for all. just because some of can run "X" amount of timing doesnt mean we all can. And climate changes, ect.

of all the venders i like WBS the best (all around, never used there PCM)! i wish they had more parts but i understand that you not going to stock stuff if it doesnt sell much or can be purchased almost anywhere anyways. and you cant beat free shipping!
 
Just how low was the timing?

14 is a nice compromise between safety and safety.

Because yes, if it gets too low, it becomes a safety concern. Just as it would be if it was too high.

Swiggles said:
of all the venders i like WBS the best (all around, never used there PCM)! i wish they had more parts but i understand that you not going to stock stuff if it doesnt sell much or can be purchased almost anywhere anyways. and you cant beat free shipping!
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Free shipping to Canada? Not in a million years.

Drop ship items from ZZP should solve and does solve part of your stock concern.

SnowFlake said:
I didn't call you fat. I asked you to explain what you meant by the LS4 having more top end than a similarly powered L67.
Stock for stock the LS4 has more top end, period. But when an L67 is making that kind of power, the curve has shifted enough for it to be a wash.

I don't itch at the chance to tell people how much I know, rather I like to hang people on their own words for a little bit of a laugh. I see too many people read/regurgitate incorrect stuff all the time. It gets passed around as fact and is a bit of a pet peeve of mine. After so many years of trying to politely educate people, only to have the debate turn into a sh*tfest, I just gave up and I enjoy just messing around.
I didn't mean to target you it just kind of happened.

I won't come after you anymore, you're a good guy and I have a lot of respect for you. I used to buy SHO parts from you and I told a lot of people that you were the guy to go to.

So you have my apologies, Mike.
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Does this mean you're done doing this?

Or just with mike?

I'd prefer the former.
 
JoRoW99 said:
Sorry im still just a little butthurt over my topswap gaskets taking 3 weeks to get to my house. I understand why there was low timing but theres nowhere in there to put in the mods you have like other vendors, at least in the top swap gasket kit set. Im sure if you knew that i had headers, ported heads and ported supercharger with a stock pulley you would have bumped it, if you do custom stuff like that.
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3 weeks on gaskets sucks. Sorry about that. I don't know the specifics but I assume something was out of stock. Usually all gaskets are on shelf and good to go. As for the timing, we can absolutely accommodate that but prefer that people contact us about because otherwise you get people that aren't sure what they're doing adding another 4 - 6 degrees of timing thinking that it means more power. It's a personal preference of mine to keep the already complicated PCM page as simple as possible.
 


SnowFlake said:
I didn't call you fat. I asked you to explain what you meant by the LS4 having more top end than a similarly powered L67.
Stock for stock the LS4 has more top end, period. But when an L67 is making that kind of power, the curve has shifted enough for it to be a wash.
Click to expand...

It depends on the setup. You can't speak in absolutes because unless you know the setup it's NOT always a wash. My turbo setup was 330whp and an LS4 would have given it a good run for it's money from a highway run because it was pushing through stock manifolds and a stock cat-back system. It made insane torque but fell flat on it's face where most turbo cars shine because of it's limitations.

Likewise with your standard supercharged 300 crank horsepower 3800. Be it gearing, drag, power band, etc it tends to fall flat at highway speeds in the upper RPMs or is at least proportionately slower than it is at slower speeds, lower in the RPMs. Rockers do wonders to correct this problem and that was my point and that's where you jumped in and thought you'd split hairs, get me to commit to a statement and then correct me.

I don't itch at the chance to tell people how much I know, rather I like to hang people on their own words for a little bit of a laugh. I see too many people read/regurgitate incorrect stuff all the time. It gets passed around as fact and is a bit of a pet peeve of mine. After so many years of trying to politely educate people, only to have the debate turn into a sh*tfest, I just gave up and I enjoy just messing around.
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First off, why apologize if you're just going to defend your actions? Just say "I'm acting like a jackass and I stand by it". You didn't hang me on anything. You misinterpreted my words, either intentionally or by mistake and then proceeded to go on a 5 post run where your sole purpose was to bait me (or others) into committing to something so that you could respond with a contrary opinion. That contributes NOTHING to the discussion and serves only to clutter posts, take them off topic, and create ill will against yourself. It humiliates those that don't know better and pisses off those that do. Why bother being here at all? Just stop doing it, with me, with others, period. I don't know how the moderators have tolerated you this long. You're a distraction.

I won't come after you anymore, you're a good guy and I have a lot of respect for you. I used to buy SHO parts from you and I told a lot of people that you were the guy to go to.
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Don't not bother me. Just learn how to communicate. See if you think I'm wrong about something all you have to say is that you disagree and tell me why and then I can respond. If you would have corrected me and said you disagreed about my assessment of a GXP beating a 300hp 3800 I could have told you a. that I was referring to a highway run (high speed, upper RPMs) and b. I could have told you that you were missing the point because all things being equal, a rocker car is going to have more upper end power than a non rocker car and since the 3800 is not short on low end power, there are absolutely NO disadvantages to running high ratio rockers and everything to gain. Instead you locked in on my statement about the L67's top end and tried setting traps and yes that's the sign of someone who wants to show how much they know. I can't see how it's "fun" to hang someone on their own words unless they are just plain wrong about something and clearly ignorant. Splitting hairs over someone's statements isn't comparable. So don't avoid me. Just act like an adult.
 
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I would suggest doing the whole exhaust system. headers downpipe and a catback system. the rockers will lower your detonation so you may be able to drop another pulley. to know this for sure get yourself a scan guage. they are well worth the 200 they cost.
 


matt5112 said:
Just how low was the timing?

14 is a nice compromise between safety and safety.

Because yes, if it gets too low, it becomes a safety concern. Just as it would be if it was too high.
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It was 11 to 10 degrees base WOT. the stock 2001 GTP file i have says the stock base is 11-13
 
if im going to be doing headers, pulller then rockers one at a time as i get the money where in there should i get the tune, because as stated above Id like to tell whoever i get the tune from what my mods are so they make it a little more custom for my set up
 
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