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Grandpa's 2001 Silver Metalic GTP

Re: Grandpa's 2001 Silver Metalic GTP - Now with P0172!

Yea. I'm stumped. Fuel pressure holds steady at 43 psi while idling. Holds pressure for over a half hour after key off. No rapid bleed off. Disconnected the purge solenoid and capped the port in the throttle body and plugged the line. Still -20 LTFT.

Going to do an oil change tomorrow as it smells contaminated. I suppose it's possible the bad vac line at the MAP sensor caused it to run rich long enough that the oil got gas soaked. Thereby allowing the PCV to feed gas vapors into the intake system. (?) Either way, it needs an oil change. That's the second to last step on the trouble tree. Last being a software update to the PCM.
 


Re: Grandpa's 2001 Silver Metalic GTP - Now with P0172!

Changed the oil today. No change. Didn't figure there would be, but it was worth a shot, and it was almost due.

Booba5185 said:
WTF is a Fram doing in there?
Click to expand...
@Booba; I put a purolator on there this time. :th_winking:

Unplugged the small vacuum line at the boost bypass actuator to induce a small vac leak. Only went up like 2%. I put that back on and unplugged the large vacuum line at the purge solenoid to induce a LARGE vac leak. Wouldn't you know... Within 30 seconds it was @ 0 and still slowly headed positive, but much more slowly. Shrug.

I'm not sure how likely or if it's even possible that it's bad fuel. It's on 1/4 tank right now. Tomorrow I'm going to throw 1/2 tank of Shell at it to see if anything changes. It's a long shot, but I think I've exhausted all the usual culprits.

Probably post my problem in the Engine section of the forum. See if anyone else has any ideas.
 
Re: Grandpa's 2001 Silver Metalic GTP - Now with P0172!

I reset the trims, and filled up the tank with fresh 91. Took it for a quick drive with the scanner running. LTFT immediately jumped to the negative teens. Aside from that, does anything look out of place? Granted, it's just a snapshot, but maybe something stands out to someone who's spent time analyzing scans?

7-21-2015-Samantha-2_zpsmwpase1p.jpg


Based on what I'm seeing (from my narrow amount of knowledge) it looks like the O2 is functioning properly. My guess is that it is legitimately "over fueling." I say that because at WOT (or 97%) I haven't even a blip of knock. Every other L67 car I've scanned running this crappy ANC91 fuel will have at least 4° of knock at WOT.

I'd be more than happy to share the full HPT scan with anyone willing to look at it...
 
Re: Grandpa's 2001 Silver Metalic GTP - Now with P0172!

The plugs, for reference. In order 1-3-5-2-4-6

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And fuel pressure at idle.
DSC_0043_zpseirztqpa.jpg
 


Just to make sure I covered everything I could possibly think of, I tossed a new O2 sensor at it. Under $25 shipped from Amazon. Reset the trims and fired her up... As soon as it went into closed loop, the the trims took a nose dive. Up to -20 after only a couple minutes of running. Sigh.

Out came the white flag.

Read the tune, burned a license, scaled the cylinder gain to 80%, flashed the tune, reset the trims, and fired it up. Once it hit closed loop, the LTFT barely moved. After a couple minutes of running, it was at +2.3. Considering it "fixed." I'm going to hand it back to my father in law once he gets back in town. I'll check where the LTFT settles in after a week or two of driving, and adjust as needed. I guess, now that his PCM is unlocked, I can go whole hog and do a full-on tune.

FWIW, the "old" O2 sensor looked almost brand new when I pulled it. More proof that the PO was chasing the same problem.
 
Here we are a week later and all is well. As far as the engine/PCM are concerned.

Had to dump a can of 152a in to get the AC working again. There's a slow leak somewhere that I don't feel like finding right now. It's 106° right now. Maybe I'll do some AC work next spring. Of course I keep saying that about my car too.
 
Got a call from my father in law asking if I'd help him put wheel bearings in. "Sure," I said. Thinking to myself; I don't remember hearing any noise form the bearings and I know the ABS light wasn't on....

I guess he didn't want to bother me, so he took it to a chain place to have it checked. They confirmed, bad bearing. He decided to order two and do both sides at once, and just be done with it. Theory being, if one is bad, the other isn't far behind. Good thing he did. They were both toast. Over 1/4" of movement when checking the play.

No wonder I couldn't tell which side was bad when swerving side to side.

DSC_0001_zps3sad43hg.jpg
 
Half the time the bearings will have play but no noise.

When that happens I just keep driving on it till they start to make noise. My car had movement in the bearings before I sold it but didnt even make a sound.
 
Well, grandpa's about to take the car on a road trip and wanted me to look it over beforehand.

PS fluid was a little low, and the DS axle is starting to leak, otherwise, everything looks good.
 


New axle is in. They're heading back to Michigan on Sunday. I told him to put it up for sale while he's there. Probably be the most rust free w-body in West Michigan.
 
Decided to tear into the original trans to see what went wrong:

DSC_0192_zps4fsuvwhh.jpg


Think I found the Problem. Looks like the needle bearings in the input carrier planet gears failed, allowing the whole thing to shift and bind up:

DSC_0193_zpsfss8sdqz.jpg


Also chewed up the sprag inner race face:

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Everything I see makes sense now. The metal in the pan/on the magnet was from that sprag face. The needle bearing were from the carrier planet gears. I half wonder if this thing has been gone through before. The 4th clutch hub has hardened splines, the chain had two blue links, and there's a shift kit in the accumulator. Aside from the obvious failure, everything looks good. Came apart really nice too. Didn't sacrifice any bolts.

Can't decide if I just want to replace what went wrong and sell it as used, or do a full blown rebuild and sell as re manufactured...
 
Just ordered a complete used planet set off ebay. 1-2 roller clutch assembly, reaction sun gear and drum assembly, reaction carrier, input carrier, both thrust bearings, input sun gear and input sun gear thrust bearing. All for $29 with free shipping.

Now for the sprag assembly.
 
BrandonHall10 said:
Can't decide if I just want to replace what went wrong and sell it as used, or do a full blown rebuild and sell as re manufactured...
Click to expand...

After looking at some of the older pictures, I see the torque converter is painted blue. That, plus what I'm seeing on the inside, I'm convinced it's been rebuilt before. My plan:

Overhaul kit (seals, and gaskets)
Lube dam
Molded pistons
Washer kit
Couple thicker 2nd steels
A shaved 3rd steel

Thorough cleaning, inspection and reassembly. Throw it on Craigslist as a "refreshed" unit for the budget conscious, and see what happens.
 
BrandonHall10 said:
Got a call from my father in law asking if I'd help him put wheel bearings in. "Sure," I said. Thinking to myself; I don't remember hearing any noise form the bearings and I know the ABS light wasn't on....

I guess he didn't want to bother me, so he took it to a chain place to have it checked. They confirmed, bad bearing. He decided to order two and do both sides at once, and just be done with it. Theory being, if one is bad, the other isn't far behind. Good thing he did. They were both toast. Over 1/4" of movement when checking the play.

No wonder I couldn't tell which side was bad when swerving side to side.

DSC_0001_zps3sad43hg.jpg
Click to expand...

By the looks of it grandpa does not have abs. No wire.
 


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