Fram oil filters - crap or not??

[motorking]

Sorry MR. Technical Manager at Fram guy, But you just LOST my business.

" Use whatever filter you like, just change your oil when your supposed to and use good oil."

Not something I would expect to hear from someone in your position.

Hey,
I hope you use my companies filters BUT- I am not here to advertise or ram them down your throat either. I would be more than happy to take you and the poster above who continues his non factual posting to see our test lab, see how filters are made, tested and what oil filter test standards are all about. I will pay for your flights, hotel rooms food and everything if you are willing to come with an open mind and see what filters are really all about. For me to say there are no good filters in the market except Fram would really hurt my credibility wouldnt it? We make good filters, so do some other companies. How does that make me a bad guy. I just recieved a letter from a Fram user with 410,000 miles on his 2002 4.3 GMC Sonoma pickup. He uses our least expensive filters. He has somehow managed to get only the good Fram filters for the last 8 years. His other car, a Suburban has 365K miles on it, again using only Fram.

 

[40th GP]

I would take you up on your offer to come for a visit...

Dave does know his stuff when it comes to these cars and forced induction in general. I looked into buying one of his cars once, but I have since lost track of him and what he has. I may be interested again if he has something built.

I would have to agree: use whatever filter (and oil) you like. The whole oil thing is kind of like the chevy vs. ford vs. dodge vs. whatever debate. They all build things that work (perhaps each with various issues) and it seems to be more preference than which one is 'better'. I am not promoting Fram or any other filter or oil (I do use synthetic by the way), but just stating that when I compared the 3 filters side by side I felt like the Fram was the better choice (even though I have used strictly SuperTech in the wife's ride and even though the Fram cost a bit more).

 

[motorking]

I would take you up on your offer to come for a visit...

Dave does know his stuff when it comes to these cars and forced induction in general. I looked into buying one of his cars once, but I have since lost track of him and what he has. I may be interested again if he has something built.

I would have to agree: use whatever filter (and oil) you like. The whole oil thing is kind of like the chevy vs. ford vs. dodge vs. whatever debate. They all build things that work (perhaps each with various issues) and it seems to be more preference than which one is 'better'. I am not promoting Fram or any other filter or oil (I do use synthetic by the way), but just stating that when I compared the 3 filters side by side I felt like the Fram was the better choice (even though I have used strictly SuperTech in the wife's ride and even though the Fram cost a bit more).

Dave and I work together now at Honeywell. he does video production, technical training and other marketing and technical work for Autolite, Fram and Prestone. He is still tuning cars and loves 3800's as much as ever. He even has a SC 3800 in his DD minivan! We will be arranging tours in the spring, please reply to my work email at [email protected] if your interetsed.

 

[SlowNA06]

Extra guard, lowest price filter orange can. Has 94% single pass efficiency, hold around 7 grams of dirt till bypass, recommended for 3-4000 miles oil changes. Has a black nitrile rubber antidrainback valve. Has fiber end caps, same as Honda OE filters, Subaru OE filters, Bentley OE filters and even AC Delco now have felt end caps.

You didn't mention the media like you did the other two. If it's the about the same quality as the AC Delco (Champion, right?) then I save a few pennies by going Delco.

Extended Guard- Top of the line filter. Gold can, Has two fully synthetic ply media wrapped around a stainless steel screen. Metal end caps. All silicone valves. Gaurenteed for 10,000 mile oil changes, holds up to 28 grams of dirt, recommended for use with synthetic oil. There is no better oil filter in the market for passenger cars. 98% efficiency.

This sounds exactly like what all the hardcore oil guys here are looking for. Matt/others: Is there a part substitution you would prefer to see in this filter? I ask because it would be useful for me when shopping.

High Mileage filter. This is a extra guard filter that has a basket inside. the basket contians a timed release gel chemical that maintians the acid balance and total base number of the oil in high mile, blow by challenged engines.

When I had an oil analysis done, acids and bases were not mentioned in the results. Did I miss something important?

Thanks for posting the same thing again.

Aw, c'mon, a lot of people don't read the whole thread and he only posts rarely, so he is not well-known.

Use whatever filter you like, just change you oil when your supposed to and use good oil.

I fail to see how this could be bad advice, so long as the filter and oil you like are at least OE quality.

Sorry MR. Technical Manager at Fram guy, But you just LOST my business.

" Use whatever filter you like, just change your oil when your supposed to and use good oil."

Not something I would expect to hear from someone in your position.

He's not in sales. He's being helpful. You're being a dick.

 

[motorking]

You didn't mention the media like you did the other two. If it's the about the same quality as the AC Delco (Champion, right?) then I save a few pennies by going Delco.



This sounds exactly like what all the hardcore oil guys here are looking for. Matt/others: Is there a part substitution you would prefer to see in this filter? I ask because it would be useful for me when shopping.



When I had an oil analysis done, acids and bases were not mentioned in the results. Did I miss something important?


Aw, c'mon, a lot of people don't read the whole thread and he only posts rarely, so he is not well-known.



I fail to see how this could be bad advice, so long as the filter and oil you like are at least OE quality.



He's not in sales. He's being helpful. You're being a dick.

Wow,
Tough crowd here today.
Extra Guard has cellulose and about 15% synthetic glass media
Tough Guard has Cellulose and over 30% synthetic glass media
Extended Guard, two ply full synthetic glass wrapped around a stainless steel screen
High Mileage- Is the same as Extra Guard with the additive.
Not sure who did your oil analysis, they should have mentioned PH or TBn numbers. We use polaris labs, they are the best in the USA.
Peace FWD dudes.

 

[SlowNA06]

Not sure who did your oil analysis, they should have mentioned PH or TBn numbers. We use polaris labs, they are the best in the USA.

Thanks for all the info.

I used Blackstone Labs. I didn't do TBN/TAN because I was only testing for coolant and it was an extra $10 for TBN/TAN. I'll be sure to do it next time, though.

 

[torq455]

Fram is called the orange can of death.

 

[blueguy]

Fram is called the orange can of death.

Thanks for adding all of that important information to this otherwise USEFUL thread.

 

[SlowNA06]

just change you oil when your supposed to

Fun Fact: Fram has been giving this advice since at least 1981.

 

[matt5112]

I was actually going to switch to the fram synthetic filter for my next oil change... Still considering it.

I've got a question though.

The package says 97 % filtration of particles > 20 microns.

Doesnt state how many passes.

Also curious how this compares to the test that the mobil filters (champion labs) uses. It appears to be a multi-pass test which should result in higher filtration %.

They claim 99.2% on a multipass test.

I didn't like how the fram was tested in house but I'm willing to live with it if you could explain further what the test itself is.

Summary is: give me cold hard fact with supporting evidence and you'll win my business.

I still really dont like the idea of having a gel additive that is supposed to be worn away over time.

But you mention its in a basket, any pictures of one?

Sorry about that post from this morning. This is the one I should have posted.

 

[motorking]

I was actually going to switch to the fram synthetic filter for my next oil change... Still considering it.

I've got a question though.

The package says 97 % filtration of particles > 20 microns.

Doesnt state how many passes.

That is single pass efficiency using particles in the 0-20 micron size. The multiple pass efficiency is at 99% or better. We use the ISO 4548-12 test, we have our own engineering lab, something that K+N, Mobil 1 and many others do not. Additionally, many competitors are still using the old SAE test (obsolete in 2002) to test filters. Why? Because they can skew the results by playing with the particle size. Any filter can be 99% efficienct at removing bowling balls from your oil. The 10-20 particle size is what causes engine damage.

Also curious how this compares to the test that the mobil filters (champion labs) uses. It appears to be a multi-pass test which should result in higher filtration %.

They claim 99.2% on a multipass test. It is easy to get high numbers on multi pass. The question you want to ask is this- When do you want your filter to remove the dirt from your oil? The first time it goes through or after it has been through the filter (and your engine) many times.

I didn't like how the fram was tested in house but I'm willing to live with it if you could explain further what the test itself is.

Summary is: give me cold hard fact with supporting evidence and you'll win my business.
We always use the ISO test, we have to because we are a OE supplier to Mack, Honda, Subaru and many others. Youi can look up this test through google to get an idea of how comprehensive it is.

I still really dont like the idea of having a gel additive that is supposed to be worn away over time.

But you mention its in a basket, any pictures of one?
The High Mileage filter is intended for beater cars that use oil, leak and have blow by. There is no benefit to using it on a healthy engine. The technology does show promise on large OTR trucks by extending oil drain intervals. Mack is currently using it OE.

Sorry about that post from this morning. This is the one I should have posted.

No worries dude. I am a die hard gearhead who loves cars. Dave B has even made me appreciate how fast a turboed 3800 can be. We did a Pontiac Bonneville with 12 psi, it was as fast as my CTS-V! I am always available to answer any questions regarding spark plugs-Autolite, Filters-Fram and Coolants-Prestone at [email protected]

 

[SlowNA06]

I am always available to answer any questions regarding spark plugs-Autolite, Filters-Fram and Coolants-Prestone at [email protected]

While I can sympathize with anyone that would rather answer private emails than deal with the heckling of the Internet, I for one would appreciate if you could take the time to educate us on your products in the public forum.

So far, I believe you have done your organization a great service and are providing what some might consider much-needed credibility to the products. You'll notice that not a single other spark plug or oil filter representative has taken the time to work with us (especially by sending an experienced mechanic) on product education - and I think that really does say something special about Honeywell's customer service.

 

[Odi]

my dad has been using frams ever since. 255k on his explorer, and the car is beaten up. i got no issues with fram, but personally im using bosch oil filters and changin oil every 3000 miles on the prix.

 

[matt5112]

It is easy to get high numbers on multi pass. The question you want to ask is this- When do you want your filter to remove the dirt from your oil? The first time it goes through or after it has been through the filter (and your engine) many times.

Guess whos switching to fram synthetic?

Had slightly excessive buildup on my drain plug after 5000 KM with a mobil 1 filter. We'll see how this one fairs. (gonna have to wait till march or so.)

 

[SnowDrift]

I actually copied the post from the Fram rep. made here and sent it to WIX customer service yesterday. I've not gotten a response yet. If I do, I will post it up on here. I didn't see any of their manufacturing facilities in India, as was mentioned. It sounded as if the poster is saying all Fram filters are made in the USA.

A secondary struggle I have is that Fram filters can be had from discount department stores, like Meijer and Walmart. I'm not saying that equates to poor quality, but it makes me question things. I am interested in the thread, though, and am not trying to start another Fram bash day. Some of us are a "tough sell" and this thread is good to lay out the facts.

 

[matt5112]

I actually copied the post from the Fram rep. made here and sent it to WIX customer service yesterday. I've not gotten a response yet. If I do, I will post it up on here. I didn't see any of their manufacturing facilities in India, as was mentioned. It sounded as if the poster is saying all Fram filters are made in the USA.

A secondary struggle I have is that Fram filters can be had from discount department stores, like Meijer and Walmart. I'm not saying that equates to poor quality, but it makes me question things. I am interested in the thread, though, and am not trying to start another Fram bash day. Some of us are a "tough sell" and this thread is good to lay out the facts.

Lets face it, the entry level filters are probably garbage relative to the top of the line.

Only filter you should really be interested in running is something for extended drain intervals.

Edit: Just called both mobil and champion labs.... Couldn't give me single pass efficiency test results and champion labs guy had ONE number to give me "filtration material is rated for 10 microns"... yeah... but how well....

Edit 2: K&n.......... 98% multi-pass efficiency at 20 microns.

Champion labs also claims they will be making the new royal purple filters.... But who wants engine oil with dye in it?

 

[SlowNA06]

Fram filters can be had from discount department stores, like Meijer and Walmart. I'm not saying that equates to poor quality, but it makes me question things.

I wrote a well-sourced 60-page paper on Wal-Mart's operational structure and their suppliers back in college (exciting, right?). The short answer is that their suppliers take a hit on profit margin per unit in order to sell mass quantities; they do not lower quality to maintain profit margin. Because of this, it takes a pretty solid infrastructure to maintain status as a Wal-Mart supplier for long periods of time, especially since Wal-Mart has a tendency to continue to lower a product's price without decreasing their own profit margins (thusly decreasing the supplier's profit).

Sometimes, packaging (box, sticker, etc.) is different (you'll see that most motor oils in Wal-Mart advertise Wal-Mart's oil recycling on the sticker). So the filter you buy at Wal-Mart is the same one you buy at any auto parts store (easy way to tell: check the part number).

But who wants engine oil with dye in it?

Anyone trying to find an oil leak?:th_laugh-lol2:

 

[torq455]

Thanks for adding all of that important information to this otherwise USEFUL thread.

You too.

 

[Juanmiguel]

ok this probably doesn't add much value to this thread, but down here in Mexico, the FRAM brand is sold as the "good" brand in autoparts stores. I've actually been using it for a while now, but there aren't that many brands to choose from, most of them are Mexican brands, which have also been around for decades like Gonher and LTH.

 

[motorking]

While I can sympathize with anyone that would rather answer private emails than deal with the heckling of the Internet, I for one would appreciate if you could take the time to educate us on your products in the public forum.

So far, I believe you have done your organization a great service and are providing what some might consider much-needed credibility to the products. You'll notice that not a single other spark plug or oil filter representative has taken the time to work with us (especially by sending an experienced mechanic) on product education - and I think that really does say something special about Honeywell's customer service.

Slow,
Not unwilling to answer any type of question related to what we sell or give anyone the very best technical advice I can. These guys are brutal sometimes and well, I do get paid to do this type of work. It is entertaining, I have learned not to take it personally and try my best to remain as professional as I can. It can be dificult at times. Like the guy here now, he isnt reading my postings very closely, I never said all fram filters are made in the usa, I said we have two factories in the US and one in Canada. We do source some cartridge filters in Korea, so do many automakers. The good news on that- We just installed a new filter line in the USA to bring cartridge filter manufacturing in house, We will even be making a extended guard type cartidge filter. You will begin seeing more and more cars using cartridge style filters due to Euro regulations.
I also did not say "all WIX filters are being made in India", only they are making some there. They spin this by saying they are a "International auto parts supplier". So be it, I am not on here or any other forum to talk trash about competitors products. WIX has made an industry of cutting open Fram filters and their own filters and pointing out they have steel end caps and we have fiber end caps, so WIX must be better. They have never said why, never said there is any failure rate with fiber end caps and never say they remove more dirt from your oil than Fram.

I really do not want to talk about other companies products, I will answer anything about ours, suggest you contact the other companies with similar questions to compare us and them. You will see many will give you canned responses and no ability to talk with a real person.


On the Wal-Mart and other retail issues, we sell the exact same product to Wal-Mart and any other retailer that we sell in the auto parts store. You will find the lowest price at the stores that sell the most Fram as all our pricing is based on volume of sales, you buy alot, you pay less, thats it. In fact, the Wal-Mart Tire and Lube centers install a Fram filter, same as the one sold in the isle except its bulk packed and says Fram Pro on the side instead of extra guard. They install a filter that is better for your engine than what most quick lubes use. Think about it, when they charge 19.99 to change your oil, what kind of oil and filter could they be using?

Long winded I know, but I have a trade magazine article due in a couple hours and have to hammer that out, back later.