Fram oil filters - crap or not??
- Thread starter sk8rh84
- Start date
SuperSport
New member
All of them.
SnowDrift
New member
FRAM - whether spelled backward or forward is translated "JUNK" in English. Cut an orange can of death (I like that phrase) apart and cut a WIX (Carquest, NAPA, Big A) apart and you'll see some of the difference at a glance, without the need for special equipment.
The anti drain back valve they advertise is present in a WIX, too - they just don't use it as a marketing tool like FRAM does. It would be like GM advertising that the new Camaro has a "painted exterior."
Honestly, the oil filter is about the most inexpensive maintenance a person can do on an engine. Is it really worth saving the $1 or whatever the difference is to buy an inferior product? My WIX filters cost me $6 at the local NAPA and I consider it an investment into the future of my engines.
The anti drain back valve they advertise is present in a WIX, too - they just don't use it as a marketing tool like FRAM does. It would be like GM advertising that the new Camaro has a "painted exterior."
Honestly, the oil filter is about the most inexpensive maintenance a person can do on an engine. Is it really worth saving the $1 or whatever the difference is to buy an inferior product? My WIX filters cost me $6 at the local NAPA and I consider it an investment into the future of my engines.
iroc2
New member
heres my take on the whole issue. personally i think a lot of it is what brand some people prefer. and then its also what brand others have taken apart and prefer. i may receive some hate fro this but i buy frams for the coating stuff on them cuz i find it easier to get the filter off and then idont need any tools to take it off.
from the sounds of everything, i think i may try a wix next time i change my oil. ive never had any problem with my frams, but if everyone is saying that wix is better, ill give it a shot.
from the sounds of everything, i think i may try a wix next time i change my oil. ive never had any problem with my frams, but if everyone is saying that wix is better, ill give it a shot.
Scimmia
New member
There are reasons for people saying that Fram is crap, though, I mentioned them in an earlier post. Cardboard end caps where most use metal, a nitrile Anti-Drainback Valve where most use silicone, and a cheap metal canister.
The Extra Guards are garbage. The others aren't so bad. The Tough Guard uses a better ADBV and canister, but still uses the cardboard endcaps. The Xtended Guard switches to the metal endcaps, and there's nothing wrong with this filter at all.
Lvgrandprix2003
New member
This discussion is like comparing Ford to Chevy, or Dodge. Fram, purolator, Wix, all manufacture the same product with different designs. Been using ALL kinds of different filters on my cars for the past 16 years, had no issues. Change your oil and oil filter every 3K and you will be just fine.
cerick08GP
New member
That’s because they are the same filter.
I just have to say that in the past when GM actually made the AC Delco filters they were good. Now they are farmed out and IIRC they use the exact same Encore design as FRAM now. Hence AC Delco’s are just as bad as FRAM today. Someone correct me if I’m mistaken. Seriously.:th_nervous:I have had FRAMs that the anti-drain back totally failed; I don’t trust their quality anymore. My personal favorite filter, for my money, is the PureONE.:th_thumbsup-wink:
Scimmia
New member
As I mentioned earlier, the Delcos now use an E-Core (not Encore) design, made by Champion. Fram makes their own, and they are NOT E-Cores. E-Cores use fiber endcaps (better than cardboard, but still not metal). On the down side, they use a nylon center tube instead of metal.
SlowNA06
New member
Well, they look different from the outside. I would assume a different designs on the inside. Scimmia says Delcos are likely Champion E-Cores.
blueguy
The Blue One
Meh...just wait.
I use Mobil1 everything...hopefully their quality isn't crap. I don't cut open to inspect my filters though.
Scimmia
New member
Just some corroborating evidence:
http://www.acdelcotechconnect.com/pdf/09TSS-062.pdf
ACDelco is implementing a design change on the PF46, PF47, PF52 and PF61 ACDelco Oil Filters...Additional features include a slightly smaller can, fully
covered baseplate, non metallic end caps and high strength nylon core.
This is why I don't recommend ACDelco filters anymore, but they're still better than the Extra Guard.
iroc2
New member
ok this is what i was trying to say, to be it all seems to be what brand people like. thanks
i may not know everything automotive but i know a little bit/enough to get me by, but whats the big deal about the canister? are some of you like having it hold up your engine or something? because i personnaly cant see how the canister quality matters. can someone please explain?
like depending on what it is i could probly understand but i currently dont get it. enlighten me please
Scimmia
New member
I'll qualify this by saying I've never seen it myself, but there are numerous stories around of people bursting the canister on the oil filter.
Lvgrandprix2003
New member
When I was in College 13 years ago, I worked at Valvoline, Oil Express, and the pep boys (i know!) and I have seen valvoline to fram, to purolator filters blown. SO it all depends on if the filter was manufactured right at the time. and as far as is there a difference in what filter does better.......Sure there is, but if you keep your routine maintenace up, you will always have clean (non black and charred) oil. Point is, if you keep your oil changed, no matter what filter brand you use, it will not have to work hard enough any way. Clean oil will stay clean, if the old oil doesnt have a million miles on it.
I guess i will start with you. I am the technical manager at Fram. Have you cut open a AC Delco filter lately? They now use a "felt" end cap and a plastic center tube. Do you have any idea what the filter efficiency or capacity is of any of the filters you are either bashing or recommending? The cheapest Fram filter has better efficiency and capacity than the current AC delco filtyer. Do you even undertsand why WIX has made an industry of cutting open their filters and ours and whining away about metal vs fiber end caps? Its because they do not want to talk about filtration! If having a fiber end cap was a poor way to make a filter, how do you explain that Honda OE, subaru OE, Bently OE (on a 345,000 dollar car) all are using fiber end caps? AC Delco and Champ labs are now using a felt end cap. Even better, many including toyota have eliminated end caps of any kind from their filters and use only glue to seal the ends of the media. What is important is efficiency and capacity along with flow rates. We make five different kinds of filters from the 94% efficient Fram extra guard at the lowest price point to the 98% efficient two ply synthetic glass media, silicone valved and garenteed for 10k oil changes extended guard at the high end. I just recieved a letter from a Scott Lipford in marlette, michigan showing me pictures of his 2002 Sonoma with 440,000 miles on it, still running perfect and using the least expensive Fram filters. My sisters GXP GP has 179k miles on it and she gets her oil changed at wallyworld using the cheapest oil and least expensive Fram filter every 4k, how do you explain that? Please take the time to learn something about oil and oil filters instead of just regurgitating internet tribal knowledge.:th_thumbsup-wink:
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Lvgrandprix2003
New member
Because they know they don't have a strong enough leg to stand on......
Simple fact is, no matter what oil or filter you use, if you keep you oil changed, no matter what brand oil filter you have it will not have to work hard to keep the oil clean.