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Do our cars SUCK cornering in the mountains, or do I suck at driving? :(

My 98 gtp handles like **** even with speedbuilt sways poly bushings new front suspension umi trailing arms and zzp stb's. The comp g handles great and is still stock but will soon have all the handling stuff from the gtp on it so it'll be even better.
 


Thanks for all the feedback. I do sound like I'm asking a lot for this car...I still love it for what it is: a big, fast, American cruiser. Thing is I just wasn't expecting it to be this poor under those elements. Like I said my previous car, a Lumina (which I also still LOVE but my wife won't allow it haha) handled noticeably better.
 
Front wheel drives inherently are not good for cornering. Add that to the weight of a GP, and it is not super impressive. Follow all the previous posts for tips on the mechanical end of it.

I have found some tricks to driving a FWD in a performance manner, but, they only have reall application on the track as doing it on the street is too risky in my opinion. Here is what I found that works well:

Brake later into the corner up to the point to where you are about to say " Oh crap....I just messed up! "... and brake hard. Take a tighter inside line through the corner. Once the weight is transfered onto the front wheels, push the "Go-Go" pedal to the floor and accelerate out of the corner. The natural understeer of the FWD will push you outside of the turn, but, if you are on the right line, you will be able to accelerate straight through and gain momentum the whole time after the apex.

This is the downfall of FWD. Once the motor spools up, the weight is transferred back to the rear and this causes most of the understear IMO. By jabbing on the brakes, you put the weight back onto the front end which should cause a slight oversteer.

I found this trick racing my Fiero. With the engine in the rear, it understeered pretty hard, just like a FWD. I did exactly what I mentioned above and times got much better. I then took what I learned from there and tried it on FWD and had immediate success with it.
 
riding the brakes while still on the gas entering a turn will also plant the front end down some. bad for the brakes tho lol
 
Trail braking entering the corner(not recommended for stock brakes) and install a adjustable proportioning valve. Brake bias is crucial. It won't overcome weight bias 100% but you would be surprised how much a brake bias adjustment improves high speed corning.
 


i had a few turns i would take at high speed riding the brakes through it. anyone new for this ride, well they sh it their pants, then asked how did it not slide off the road lol the look on their face as you are giving it more gas, when you should be letting off the gas is priceless lol

im a 2 footed driver as it is, so this is a easy thing to do for me.
 
In karting, you had better master trail braking or plan on spending your time mid pack. We used to use up a set of brake pads each weekend. At night the rotors would glow...lol
 
I like how my suspension is setup right now, I've broken the rear out a few times so it's pretty balanced. I'm about to mess all that balance up now, about to stiffen up the front without touching the rear, I hope that doesn't last long though.
 
Sandman said:
I like how my suspension is setup right now, I've broken the rear out a few times so it's pretty balanced. I'm about to mess all that balance up now, about to stiffen up the front without touching the rear, I hope that doesn't last long though.
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Be careful stiffening up the front too much. It will slow down weight transfer which can kill ya on corner entry.
 


OP: What I can't figure out is why you're complaining of torque steer with a stock car. Are the LCA bushings torn? As per the quoted post below, I suggest a Dorman sway bar with Moog bushings (1.26")/end links as well as new LCA's if your bushings are torn.

Honestly still don't understand the claim that STB's make that much of a difference.

I'm curious if you were to remove it and take the same corners at speed if you'd notice a difference if at all. Placebo effect?

There is so much slop in the rest of the suspension that needs looking after before you get to that level IMO.

I posted this elsewhere on here:

matt5112 said:
Honestly after trying every part on a W body short of lateral links and coilovers, I'd have to rate the front bar as the #1 improvement in handling. It helps control all of that weight out front.

Next was bilstein HD/vogtland up front.

Next was trailing arms, followed by rear sway (ADDCO bar, 22mm solid)/bilstein HD/vogtlands, with STB's in dead last. And by dead last I mean basically worthless with all of those other components.

Arguably, I didn't notice much difference with the rear struts/springs/sway. The rear end still had way too much play on high speed sweepers. That's not to say it didn't help, it surely made a difference, but after you consider springs were $150, struts $600, sway $200. Probably would have been better off buying the BMR rear end link kit.

All depends what you're after. With all of that done, you could feel every little bump in the road. However the ride wasn't uncomfortable. Firm but smooth, the bilstein way.

Oh and I did all of this on 225/60R16. Enough tire to smooth out the bumps, yet still competent enough to provide a solid enough steering feel given the obvious heavy front end. Driven cars with 1" sidewalls, interesting, but not for a daily.
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You can easily spend a couple thousand taking the play out of the factory suspension. You can take it out of the tires or the suspension itself. Entirely up to you.

I don't know about your roads, but dodge the pothole is a game you don't always win at around here.

On the topic of speed ratings, mine were W rated. As far as I'm concerned, there wasn't a noticeable reduction in sidewall flex going from an H speed rating to the W. This was probably due to the size itself. Regardless, I've seen some pretty flimsy W-rated tires. For example, a V rated Primacy MXV4 has a more substantial sidewall than say a W rated DWS.

Supercharged cars should have come with H speed rated tires, V if it was a comp G. T speed rating was for the N/A models.
 
US News: The Pontiac Grand Prix's handling gets mixed reviews, with some impressed at the car's agility, but others disappointed in its lack of stability. Edmunds says, "On twistier thoroughfares, the 2008 Pontiac Grand Prix feels larger than most of its competitors, which is perhaps not much of a surprise when you consider that it's almost 10 inches longer than the Toyota Camry. In its favor, though, the Grand Prix is still fairly tight and tossable for a front-wheel-drive car." The Detroit News finds the Grand Prix "handled beautifully, especially on curvy roads in the foothills north of Phoenix. I never felt like I was fighting for control of the steering wheel or overwhelmed by muscle."

And tires make all the difference.
 
machinegunsquid said:
Took my GTP up to the dragon (US-129/Deal's Gap) a few weeks ago.

New LCAs, lowered with anti-pogo washers, and 245/45-18s. No swaybar upgrades, no strut tower braces. It handled great. Not nearly as well as our 2G eclipse, but I never had 1 moment of doubt with the car. No wheel spin (even in 75% throttle through the gravity cavity)

I attribute most of this to being lowered and slightly wider, brand new tires.
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This is all I did. Lowered + Bigger sticky tires and I take on ramps rated for 40 at 95 with no issues.
 


i drive through the mountains and redwoods every other week and im the guy passing everyone around corners at 85, im just lowered on dna springs and have no issue with confidence of sliding off a cliff
 
If Corollas were running circles around you, something is wrong or you need more practice at driving your GP around curves.
 
Oxfire said:
This is all I did. Lowered + Bigger sticky tires and I take on ramps rated for 40 at 95 with no issues.
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same. get rid of the stock struts and springs and make sure all your bushings are good. I have 18's with 245,50,18 tires. imo the biggest improvement is straight line stability tho, the car just burns up the highway and can keep up with cars that cost 3x as much
 
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