Built 4t65e - The results are in.

[BrandonHall10]

Re: Jane's 4t65e - It's tedious

Thanks!

I used your write up when I put the shift kit in my car. (Accumulator only) That was the most complicated thing I'd done up to that point, and having that as a guide was very helpful. Thank you for that!

I thought about putting different springs and spacers in, and I still may at some point, but I figured the standard pieces would be a good place to start. Having a pan with a drain plug will make it less painful when I do.

If the '06 is boosted, you'll be in there before you think. Haha!

 

[02NavyBlue]

Re: Jane's 4t65e - It's tedious

Well man you went from new to installing a shift kit to full builds, impressive!
I like the springs Transgo supplies, all 3 in one bore lol. Some kits just use spacers, which I would think gives a bit of a weird shift feel, like a soft initial apply then a hard bump. Haven't tested that but I like having stiff springs and shims to back them up. At least with my 02 half the reason I put it in was because I had slower shifts as it got warm, I bet my 06 will do more with the standard transgo than my 02 did being the 06 trans works perfectly. And yes it's supercharged. And I hope I don't "have" to go in there at any time, I'm not gonna be too crazy on it. My 02 would take anything you gave it, but that's because it's N/A lol

 

[GMR Badass]

Re: Jane's 4t65e - It's tedious

Brandon you should have used 3 springs in the 4th accumulator. It varies a little from the instructions but is well worth it. 1 from the new shift kit and re-use the original two.

 

[BrandonHall10]

Re: Jane's 4t65e - It's tedious

Ah-ha! Didn't even think about that. See, this is why I'm taking this build slow, and posting everything. I appreciate the input. I still have the channel plate sitting on the bench. I can toss that extra spring in there, no problem.

What do you think about shimming (using a large washer) the springs in there. Would the combination of 3 springs AND a shim be too much?

 

[GMR Badass]

Re: Jane's 4t65e - It's tedious

I don't add a shim, by doing a total of 3 springs it does essentially the same thing. You can try doing everything but I've never found it to be needed since 4th was never really made to handle any kind of big power. Just quickens it up and gives it a better feel shifting into 4th......Edited my earlier post, it's 2 original springs with the 1 from the shift kit.

I run the shift kit a little differently. I make the 1-2 accumulators stack up the same in terms of springs so the red one currently in the 4th housing (in your pic) gets moved over to one of the 1-2 accumulators and then it end up being 3 yellow springs into that 4th housing.

 

[GMR Badass]

Re: Jane's 4t65e - It's tedious

No shim no spacer and move red spring to make both 1-2 and 2-3 accumulator spring setups look identical.

 

[BrandonHall10]

Re: Jane's 4t65e - It's tedious

I was just about to ask about moving that "extra" red spring to the accumulator. I'll move everything around tonight and post pictures of the revised setup. Thanks!

 

[BrandonHall10]

Re: Jane's 4t65e - It's tedious

Alright, I got the shift kit springs moved around per Greg's suggestion

The valve body is all put back together minus the 1-2 shift valve. It showed signs of flaking/scarred anodization. This must be a fairly common issue. Sonnax offers a drop in replacement valve. Hoping my trans place has them in stock.

Gratuitous bench shot

And my $12 organization method

Going to the trans shop tomorrow. Looking to get new accumulator pistons, a 1-2 shift valve, and pick up the super secret snap ring they ordered for me. Also going to see what they have to tighten up the third clutch pack.

 

[GMR Badass]

Re: Jane's 4t65e - It's tedious

Shift kit arrangement looks good. How you have it mounted to a table makes me laugh because that's exactly how I did my first transmission.

Couple methods for tightening up third clutch pack. One is going to be to use a razor blade to remove all of the friction material off of an outer lugged 3rd steel/friction (used one that you pulled out) or to take one of then.055" plates out and use a mid 80s 440T4 3rd steel which is. 090" and puts it around .030-.040" clearance.

What is this super secret snap ring they ordered?

 

[Turbocharged400sbc]

Re: Jane's 4t65e - It's tedious

put a helicoil in the zzp pan now or youll be doing it later.

go insane with the magnets, dab or rtv and stick em. every magnet to collect ferrous particles keeps more particles out of the PCS/and bushings.

i swear im going to put on a spin-on filter on the cooler line

 

[16MustangVet]

Re: Jane's 4t65e - It's tedious

oooo i like that spin off filter idea and never thought about all that sh1t getting trapped and such....

love this thread i really need to make a clone of the trans thats in the s1x e85 car and keep it on hand wouldnt be that expensive or hard and save me headaches down the road!!

would be awesome to have one on stand by instead of jumping through my ass to get something fixed fast.

ive given my wife permission to go full retard on the house searching now that weve got va approval. most everything im looking at is actually less than my fvcking rent and 2 car garages fvck yeah! this throwing money out the window is about to stop.

ohh ps what do you and greg require for fancy tool loan/borrow? i has paypal lol !!

 

[BrandonHall10]

Re: Jane's 4t65e - It's tedious

How you have it mounted to a table makes me laugh because that's exactly how I did my first transmission.

It's pretty convenient. If I had a welder, I'd build the engine stand bracket. This is probably the next best thing. The only thing that sucks is loading the diff and cover UP into the case. But it's not impossible.

Couple methods for tightening up third clutch pack. One is going to be to use a razor blade to remove all of the friction material off of an outer lugged 3rd steel/friction (used one that you pulled out) or to take one of then.055" plates out and use a mid 80s 440T4 3rd steel which is. 090" and puts it around .030-.040" clearance.

Thanks for the clarification. I see that TEP also offers a custom 3rd backing plate for $30.

http://shop.tripleedgeperformance.c...iple-Edge-Performance-item-4T65E-3RD-PLT1.htm

I'll have to see which method gives me the optimal clearance once I get to that point.

What is this super secret snap ring they ordered?

It's part of the Alto "New CLearance Kit for 2nd, 3rd & Forward on GM 4T65E..." http://www.altousa.com/images/new_products/np88.pdf

I'll know more and post pictures once it's actually in my hands. If I actually get it that is. It's supposed to be the last one in the nation, and you know how that goes. Supposedly it came all the way from Arkana Arkansas. I may not even need it with the 10pc. input clutch setup, but for $10, and it being the last one available, I wanted it!

put a helicoilin the zzp pan now or youll be doing it later.

Haha! It already needs one. I bought it with a stripped hole. I got it pretty cheap and that's the only reason I bought it. From my experience in machining and manufacturing, something like that should come with a helicoil from day one. I'm sure you'd agree... A helicoil in an aluminum pan isn't a "repair" it's an upgrade.

go insanewith the magnets, dab or rtv and stick em. every magnet to collect ferrousparticles keeps more particles out of the PCS/and bushings.

I got 4 new generic squares and 2 old GM squares. I'm thinking I'll stick the GM squares to the metal part of the filter. I wasn't sure how to secure the others though. You're saying a dab of high temp RTV will survive inside the pan and hold the smaller squares in place?

ohh ps what do you and greg require for fancy tool loan/borrow? i has paypal lol !!

A trans tool loaner program? Hmm...

 

[BrandonHall10]

Re: Jane's 4t65e - It's tedious

My magnet collection

 

[BrandonHall10]

Re: Jane's 4t65e - It's tedious

Well, the special snap ring was a no-go. Not a huge loss. I should be able to tighten up the input clutch clearance using the clutches and assorted steels I have on hand. They also didn't have my 1-2 shift valve in stock, but it's on order. Should have it next Friday. I did get the new accumulator pistons though

So I was able to wrap up the accumulator assembly

Ready for final assembly

I stopped at a couple local machine shops. Nobody had the HeliCoil kit I needed, and I wasn't about to buy a $65 kit to fix one hole. Figured I'd give this a shot:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/M5-M6-M8-M1...hash=item43d36ae331:m:mBaB4E9RXHtwl5l7-MakL2Q

Currently working on putting new o-rings on the MPS...

 

[02NavyBlue]

Re: Jane's 4t65e - It's tedious

Did the new pistons solve the extra slack issue? Good choice on the shift kit spring orientation. I'm going to do the same thing. I didn't think to leave the stock springs in the 4th when I did my 02.

 

[BrandonHall10]

Re: Jane's 4t65e - It's tedious

Oh yeah. the old piston pin bores were oblong. You could wiggle the pin side to side a bunch. The bores on the new pistons are a nice slip fit.

New o-rings on the MPS and checked function of all the switches. All check good.

I finally got to build the input/3rd clutch packs. Couldn't do anything till I got this. It came today. The Sonnax 3rd clutch piston kit. PN 84965-01K

Pictures of the assembly progress

Once that was in, I could check the clearance on the 3rd with the standard kit components. I stopped checking after 0.085" went in.

I knew if I was over 0.085" a shaved outer splined 3rd clutch would get me pretty close. The steel part measures just under 0.050"

Here it is de-clutched

That put me right where I want to be. Picture shows a 0.035" feeler, but it's actually closer to 0.040"

On to the input clutch pack. It's loose

My solution was to replace one of the 0.050" steels (used in the 10pc stack) with a 0.078" steel (used in the 8pc stack). This put me around 0.045" and that was close enough. Another thick plate would have made it too tight. From what I've read, the clearance on the input clutch assembly is less critical. It's not a "shifting" clutch.

Now that all clearances have been checked, the clutches can soak.

 

[Spawne32]

Re: Jane's 4t65e - It's tedious

fantastic work so far, wanted to ask what brand clutches are you using? TEP always recommends the borg warners which is what i have in mine from his kit, but I know borg warner makes like 20 different styles of clutches with varying degrees of friction.

 

[BrandonHall10]

Re: Jane's 4t65e - It's tedious

Thank you! The clutches came as part of the Transtar rebuild kit. They are Borg Warner, and the steels are all Raybestos.

The input and 2nd are both tan, which I guess is the standard grade. In my catalog I see they offer a "High Performance" 2nd but I haven't seen anyone use them.

The 3rd is the high energy grade. Must be the standard replacement. The kit I got for my 2004 minivan had HE 3rd clutches.

The 4th clutches aren't labeled as high energy but they are that dark green color. Not sure.

 

[Travisgt2]

Re: Jane's 4t65e - It's tedious

Who wants to do my trans for me. (It hates me!!!!!)

 

[BrandonHall10]

Re: Jane's 4t65e - Starting to assemble

Stopped at the hardware store on my way home from the kids soccer game. I picked up a replacement M14x1.5 drain plug in anticipation of my HeliCoil kit. They had a couple different options for washers so I grabbed both. What's better, the steel/rubber washer, or the crush copper type? Also got some drills for the channel plate.

Since all the sub assemblies are complete except the valve body, I decided to start assembling. The valve body is pretty much last anyway.

Ring gear in

Like I said, The hardest part of a stationary bench build is loading this pig up into the case

But it's doable

Tossed on the output shaft loading tool. Final drive endplay had already been checked before mounting it to the bench. It's a lot easier when the unit is the other way around and you can pry up up the reluctor. Final drive endplay was around 0.013"

Slipped the new o-ring on the output speed sensor

and installed into the housing

The view from up top with the final drive in

Forward band and 1-2 roller clutch in

1-2 manual band and reaction sun gear in

Thrust bearing, reaction carrier, another thrust bearing, lube dam and input carrier in

Reverse reaction drum in

That's today's progress