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03 GTP ABS/TCS--NOT SO SIMPLE--Seeking advanced advise



This thread caught my interest because of the ABS and TCS off lights seem to be the same problem I am having. So I decided to get another EBTCM to try out as has been suggested here.

I decided just to pick one up at the junk yard just to try. It cost me $75.00 and they gave it to me with the Brake pressure modulator valve/pump assembly connected to it. I don't think that I will need that part but it seems to be a pretty expensive part.

I am going to put the EBTCM on Saturday morning and see if that fixes my issue. I will report back.

I have the "ABS" light on and "TCS off" light on. Car acts normal and I have no ABS codes showing up on my actron 9580. So I think that this EBTCM thing could very well be the issue I am having as well.
 
Awesome thanks for the info.

Question for you to see if I understand correctly. Mine is a '99 GTP. I don't have the number off the part that is on the car because I am at work. But the part off the junk yard piece is 347 867 50373 0. I did not see that number as one of the ones that had to be reprogrammed, so do you think it works as is or do I need to match it to the number on my stock EBTCM?

Sorry, not trying to jack this thread. So I can discuss this onthe other thread if that is better.
 
Thanks again for the dialogue. I think Mainjet and I are in similar place. Funny you mention junk yard, because I'm looking for one near me now. Knowing what I know now, I wish I had not gotten any hubs without testing electrical system/parts first. several hundred dollars, likely unneccessary...

Advice to clear codes is perplexing, b/c, like mainjet, it does show any codes, yet dealer said rt rr read "0"--shouldn't that, in itself, create a code?

My DIC has flashed, only recently, like it resets, but seems to only happen when it changes modes/states-- like when low fuel comes on.

Previous owner added gauges, but did not tap fuse box, soooo, once I confirm front hubs are good, I'm checking continuity of guage wiring, then EBCM.

I cant believe I'm going to have to take friggen dash board off to get ABS/TCS working...

Now have detailed wiring of ABS system, including PCM, EBCM, Dash, DIC. Aside from intermittent problems, I should be able to at least isolate what is good....

I cancelled appointment with dealer, I want to check front hubs first, and have some info so I know if he knows what hes talking about before I go back, and spend more $ on his (bad) recommendations. I hope to have some real time to spend with multimeter this weekend.

Yes, i use phone to scan, HTC Evo w/ sprint, to scan and clear ODBII codes via bluetooth. Hardware is PLX KIWI, plugs into OBDII port like any other scan tool, seems to be only available online--$100, if you have I-phone they have wifi model for $150. & app for android is called 'torque,' $5. iphone app (dont know name) I think is $50. I like it, real time readings, yes-it does work, have picked up codes, diagonsed with it, cleared (EG fouled spark plug--misfires viewed in real time) no-no ABS codes...

Update more when I know more.

I haven't checked forum for EBCM replacement, but did follow up link to module master, and they have removal/installation instructions as well.
 
Hey I see your in Chicago. I work in chicago and live in indiana.

I got mine this morning from Griffith,IN Welcome to Welcome to A-1 Griffith Auto Parts & Glass

When I called them yesterday he said he had two. So if you can't find one and your not to far away you can check them out.

I would normally just go with the recommendation and have it rebuilt but I just am not sure that it's my problem yet but it sure sounds like it. So for $75.00 I figured I would get the part and try it. Plus I didn't want to take the part off my daughters car and have it not driveable while I wait to have it rebuilt to see if that is really the issue.

The issue Brandon brought up about it "may or may not work" bothers me a little. But I have it so I might as well try it.

I will let you know.
 


Mainjet, you need to be code matching off of the sticker that's on the BOTTOM of the EBCM.. you can only see it once you remove the EBCM from the ABS module. The code that I think you posted is the generic code on top of it, right?
Make sure you're compatible with the "5" rule that I mentioned in the thread. Granted, that information is from ModuleMaster, it is what they told me on the phone. Like you guys I was very skeptical so me and ModuleMaster chatted it up a bit before I bought into it.
Taking the EBCM off is very very simple, it's just 6 torx screws, the bottom right one may be a b!tch and a half to do, but you can do it.

MrD, honestly you're posting so much I'm getting lost. You're having more ideas fly through your head than you can punch out of the keyboard.
If the dealer can't figure it out, and you KNOW all of your hubs are fine and you KNOW your wiring is good because you're getting readings and changes in the resistance and voltage, then have your EBCM rebuilt.
And why are you tearing the dash apart??

EDIT: NOT 0 and 3 rule, the 5 rule.
 
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Brandon,

no, the number I posted is from the bottom of the junk yard EBTCM.

I did not see anything about a "0 and 3 rule" in your other post. I guess I am missing something? What is the rule?

I have not gotten the code off my car yet and probably won't be able to until Saturday. I hope it works
 
mainjet said:
Brandon,

no, the number I posted is from the bottom of the junk yard EBTCM.

I did not see anything about a "0 and 3 rule" in your other post. I guess I am missing something? What is the rule?

I have not gotten the code off my car yet and probably won't be able to until Saturday. I hope it works
Click to expand...

i'm sorry for the confusion. i was thinking the number 5 in the last 3 digits. THAT's what's important. where did i get 0 from? sorry i typed that in a hurry and left.

from my thread: "If your Bosch part number ends in 135, 285, 358, 573, or 451, your replacement module will need to be recoded by your dealer or DIY using VagCom. This procedure is performed after your replacement module is installed in order to configure it to your vehicle. This service typically takes an hour or less, so plan on paying your dealer's hourly labor rate for the procedure.'

furthermore, in the thread i also mentioned that a GTP EBCM must match GTP, GT with GT, and so on. but you seem to have gotten that :th_thumb-up:

But yes, if the last 3 digits of YOUR original ebcm has a 5 in it, it will need to be exactly the same as the one you get from the junk yard and still may not work.
mine had a 5 in it and I learned all this after I drove an hour and bought a used one for it. go figure...
 
Okay cool. Even if everything doesn't work correctly I hope it will at least turn off the lights. Then I would know that is the problem and I could have the stock one rebuilt. But something tells me it's either going to work completely or not at all.

I appreciate all the tips and I hope the OP is getting as much out of all this as I am and can get his solved as well.
 


Yea, I was just trying to cash in some of that Obama hope and change. I guess it doesn't work with cars either:D
 
I haven't read the whole thing so sorry if its been said but I always start by pulling the plug at the EBCM and then testing for resistiance(not volts, because the hubs are a coil) at the plug which will tell you that A) all hubs are sending signal to the EBCM and there's no breaks or bad connections in any of the harnesses B) You know if the EBCM is getting signal from all 4 hubs then the problem is probably the EBCM itself. If you need the pinouts for that plug I think they are on my alldata or printed off somewhere.
 
ya, I'm all over the place. I'm still in diagnosis process.

I trust info posted here, but dont trust previous owner's work or dealer-- b/c Im confident their "bad rt rr hub, replace" diagnosis was crap & led me to wasting half a morning & $100 on part that didnt need replacing.

I've had car for 4 monthes. In the last 2 weeks the DIC has started flashing/resetting while driving. Noticed yesterday that it was directly affected by heater fan, & when I turned fan up past 3rd setting, DIC would go black & fan would cut out, complete power loss. Does not affect Instr Panel, only DIC and does not happen every time (this morning was fine). And I realized how little I've used fan, AC (prefer windows down), until now using heat (Just had 1st snow of season).

Appreciate all info posted on trouble shooting/testing. Agreed that EBCM is likely culprit, and will use modulemaster as recommended if it comes to that.

But before dumping more $ into it guessing/shooting in the dark, Im going to do my best to isolate where problem is. Call it hunch, but my 1st guess is bad wiring, 2nd guess is bad EBCM. I am going to check wiring from EBCM to DIC before spending $ on EBCM.

Comment regarding removing dash is response to rocknnachos info from gm for fixing ABS/TCS lights on all time...

Will update.
 
Mr D, I agree with you to continue your testing to see what the problem is. The issue your having with the DIC and the heater is also something that apparently is also seen when the ignition switch goes bad. See this link

http://www.grandprixforums.net/power-comes-goes-trip-computer-hvac-12413.html

I actually ordered an ignition switch because of this but I had not gotten around to fixing it. Then, because of this thread and others I kind of decided it was something else. so today I sent the ignition switch back to Rock Auto. LOL

Last night my daughter said that her car was squeeling real loud when she turned on the heat and she had no heat. So last night I ordered a heater fan motor from Rock Auto - it's like a parts express between my house and Rock Auto:D

Tomorrow morning, first thing, I am putting in my EBTCM to see if it solves my ABS/TCS problem. Then I am moving on to the lower intake manifold gasket. Then, once the blower motor arrives I will install that. But if I get a wild hair tomorrow I may send my son to the junk yard to get a heater blower motor and send the new one back to rock auto.

I like cars:th_sick2:
 
Well my ABS and Trac off lights are off and the DIC is working again. I didn't really change or fix anything so we will see with time if it stays working.

I was doing my lower intake manifold gasket this weekend. I thought while I was in there I would change out the EBTCM. I unpluged it then I kind off decided that I would wait. I didn't want to do two repairs at one time just in case I had any problems t would make it easier to figurre out what I did wrong. So I plugged it back in. I unplugged it a second time but I cant remember why.

I also unpluged the battery while I was doing the LIM gasket. When I was all done everything was working again. I can turn the TCS on and off, I can cycle through everything on the DIC and no ABS light. I have started it numerous times now and taken it for a couple of drives and it continues to work. THe DIC has flashed zeros for 2 months everytime without fail. The ABS light has been on for a couple weeks.

So I don't know what to tell you. Only that maybe I was not making good contact on the plug terminals and/or unhooking the battery for a while helped.
 


Well if it comes back on, it's the EBCM (where you get that T from, i know you think Traction, but that's not in that name). When my EBCM was bad, it would have good days and bad days. Some days the TCS and ABS lights would stay off all day and some days they would be on from first startup. It had a mind of its own.
 
I had an extra "T" layin' around so I just thought I would throw it in there to spice things up a bit.:D

Seriously, I got it from All Data. Here is their description -

The PCM uses the UART serial data line (CKT 800) to communicate with various other components and systems within the vehicle. If the PCM does not receive data from the Electronic Brake and Traction Control Module / Electronic Brake Control Module (EBTCM / EBCM) , the PCM will store DTC P1573 indicating loss of communication with the ABS/TCS system.

The PCM also receives rough road information from the EBTCM / EBCM on the Class 2 serial data circuit. The PCM uses the rough road information to enhance the misfire diagnostic by detecting crankshaft speed variations caused by driving on rough road surfaces. This allows false misfire information to be rejected. The EBTCM/ EBCM calculates rough road information by monitoring the ABS wheel speed sensors. If a malfunction occurs occurs which does not allow the EBTCM / EBCM to transmit correct rough road information to the PCM while a misfire DTC is requesting the MIL, DTC P1380 will set. If a loss of communications occurs which causes the PCM to not receive rough road information while a misfire DTC is requesting the MIL, DTC P1381 will set.

Under certain conditions, the PCM has the ability to request the EBTCM to shut OFF traction control via the serial data (CKT 800). The following DTCs will cause traction control to be disabled, an ABS/TCS DTC to be set, and the Traction OFF lamp to be illuminated:


  • DTC P0101 - Mass Air Flow System Performance
  • DTC P0102 - Mass Air Flow Sensor Circuit Low Frequency
  • DTC P0103 - Mass Air Flow Sensor Circuit High Frequency
  • DTC P0171 - Fuel Trim System Lean
  • DTC P0172 - Fuel Trim System Rich
  • DTC P0300 - Engine Misfire Detected
  • DTC P0336 - 18x Reference Signal Circuit
  • DTC P0341 - Camshaft Position Sensor Performance
  • DTC P1200 - Injector Control Circuit
  • DTC P1374 - 3X Reference Circuit
I agree that the EBCM was/is the problem in one way or another. But what it also tells me is that somehow all of these problems are related to that same issue (ABS light, Traction control off light, DIC flashing zeros).
 
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Hey, I'm with my brotha. I think that in the OP's situation he should get it rebuilt but he has thrown so much money into it now that he would just like to know what the problem is for sure and at the least cost before spending the money.

For me the money is not as much of an issue as getting it solved. But I am like everyone else, I don't want to throw money at it just to find out it's something else. So I threw $75 out for a used part just to see for sure it that was the problem and my daughter continued to drive the car until I could swap the parts.

Once the lights turned off I decided to see if they will come back before I made the swap. Right now I am just friggin happy to be done with it. This weekend I did the LIM gasket, winshield washer pump and monkeyed with the EBCM. My back needs to heal a little before the ABS light comes back on:D
 
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