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Whipple set up?



ckrummy said:
You know what **** this gun ^ I'm tired of him, I'm leaving the forum because of him, he can't read he's rude, and he thinks he is the best thing to happen to 3800's, turbo's are easier but i don't care if it's easier, i don't have room for an air to air intercooler, I've said this twice, Yes a 282 is a little on the weak side for the application, but out of the 3 you went through were any of them cyro-treated, because that greatly increases the strength of the transmission, plus you think wrinkle walls are ok so maybe that's breaking them,and yes i know they probably still break but you could have said it in a nicer way than in your face your wrong i have something to prove giant middle finger kind of way, but either way i'm not sticking around to find out, And my car is set up right and doesn't wheel hop. I'm sure i can fabricate circle's around you i know CAS, i have access to a cnc machine and a plasma table. Just because you found it hard doesn't mean i will. But still **** this, i'm going to go to a forum that actually entertains new ideas instead of being like this douche bag^ and just tell you how it's not going to work. The rest of you are ok, sorry i blew up but this guy has been pissing me off with every single post i read, he's a ****ing prick and should have no place on this forum, he should go **** himself "Like A Boss". Oh and who ever runs this forum please ban me now so i don't have to delete my account, Darkhorizon **** OFF
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In my own experience... new ideas really aren't too welcome here.
I could write an essay on this but I'll spare you the details. You will hear a lot of "not worth it for the cost" and "turbo is easier" but in the end do what makes you happy.

Whipples are nice, I'm just a bit bias toward the TVS. I think all around it's a better choice for our engine :)
On the Mustangs (03 cobras, GT500's, roush, etc...) the TVS's make within 5% of the power that whipples and kenne bells put out.

I know your goal is to stay supercharged, so it's worth looking at. Unless you just really have a boner for a whipple lol.
 
SnowFlake said:
In my own experience... new ideas really aren't too welcome here.
I could write an essay on this but I'll spare you the details. You will hear a lot of "not worth it for the cost" and "turbo is easier" but in the end do what makes you happy.

Whipples are nice, I'm just a bit bias toward the TVS. I think all around it's a better choice for our engine :)
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Wait a second. lol

Where is the TVS you had? Sold. What are you doing now? Turbo.

Oh ok.

OP- New ideas are very welcome. Just don't freak out and turn into a douche bag when people question your methods and/or results.
 
I will repeat myself and ask OP if he likes centrifugal superchargers. There have been a handful done and I think it could be done cheaper/easier than a whipple. Maybe its too close to a turbo for you but its still a supercharger. And do you really know what a whipple 3800 will do in a fiero? A lot. You could start with an intercooled/cammed setup and still be fast on a nice sounding supercharger.
 
JoRoW99 said:
I will repeat myself and ask OP if he likes centrifugal superchargers. There have been a handful done and I think it could be done cheaper/easier than a whipple. Maybe its too close to a turbo for you but its still a supercharger. And do you really know what a whipple 3800 will do in a fiero? A lot. You could start with an intercooled/cammed setup and still be fast on a nice sounding supercharger.
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I'm not really a huge fan of centrifugal superchargers, it has the same problem as the turbo, in a mid engine set up intercooling is difficult without hacking into the trunk which i will not do. A whipple set up in a Fiero set up will be crazy, and that's why i want it, the car would have a higher power to weight ratio than a Porsche 911 GT3RS and a corvette zr1. I will build the car in 3 stages, stage 1 building a long block to support my power goal, step 2 intercooler,and fuel system (injectors will be on the shelf waiting), step 3 supercharger.
 


Op, I had a 95 mr2, and ran a side mount intercooler that was fed from one of the side intakes. Could this be done on your car?



Also, I'm assuming that you do not want a turbo due to cturbo lag?

Not trying to be another nay-sayer, but I buy and sell cars all the time... Been apart of many forums and its pretty much the same on every site. Here, people are recommending the turbo setup on the 3800 because it works, and works well. No point in reinventing the wheel
 
I dont know where you got the info that I was hating on doing a whipple setup... I was just making it clear that it was not the best option.

I'm not really a huge fan of centrifugal superchargers, it has the same problem as the turbo, in a mid engine set up intercooling is difficult without hacking into the trunk which i will not do.
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On the topic of intercooling 500+hp fieros, you will not find someone that has more experience than me. I can fully assure you that doing a intercooler setup on a whipple will be worlds harder than doing one on a CSC or a turbo.

A whipple set up in a Fiero set up will be crazy, and that's why i want it, the car would have a higher power to weight ratio than a Porsche 911 GT3RS and a corvette zr1.
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It actually wont unfortunately.... Not without 100+ octane in the tank anyway.

I will build the car in 3 stages, stage 1 building a long block to support my power goal, step 2 intercooler,and fuel system (injectors will be on the shelf waiting), step 3 supercharger.
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I wont even comment on this one, I am sure there are other people here that would be as confused as I am as to why you would want to do the same work 3 different times.
 
ckrummy said:
I'm not really a huge fan of centrifugal superchargers, it has the same problem as the turbo, in a mid engine set up intercooling is difficult without hacking into the trunk which i will not do.
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I think you're a little misguided, you don't have to run air to air setup. Water to air uses a radiator, lines, pump and a core to cool the charge air. So you would mount the radiator then run lines to the back of the car to the core.

ckrummy said:
Ok i'll bite where do you put the intercooler on your 500hp turbo fiero's with pics
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This is a core -
au-awic02-1.jpg


It's actually easier to pipe in or fit than air/air.
 


Thanks for the pics I've seen a couple a couple turbo builds on Pennock's over the years including darkhorison's, and I will not deny that the turbo cars are the fastest around. I've owned a turbo car (Audi A4 1.8t chipped), and I've owned supercharged cars (98 Grand Prix GTP, and My fiero), I just like supercharger's better, i love the crisp snap, the passing power (without downshifting), and yes i do in fact have a boner for twin screw superchargers :). I'm sure a 3.8l is going to have a lot more pre-boost power than the dinky 1.8 that was in my Audi, but that's still my preference, I would personally rather keep my m90 than run a turbo, but that's just me, and i don't compromise on my Fiero, so it's not worth discussing any more about turbo's, i wouldn't go to a ford dealership to ask a question about a new Chevy.


But back to the subject at hand, would there be any benefit of dropping compression to 8:1 for a twin screw set up? and does anyone know how small of a camshaft i would be able to run and still make my hp goal (500 at the crank) assuming i have ported heads, intercooler, the whole shebang?
 
ckrummy said:
Thanks for the pics I've seen a couple a couple turbo builds on Pennock's over the years including darkhorison's, and I will not deny that the turbo cars are the fastest around. I've owned a turbo car (Audi A4 1.8t chipped), and I've owned supercharged cars (98 Grand Prix GTP, and My fiero), I just like supercharger's better, i love the crisp snap, the passing power (without downshifting), and yes i do in fact have a boner for twin screw superchargers :). I'm sure a 3.8l is going to have a lot more pre-boost power than the dinky 1.8 that was in my Audi, but that's still my preference, I would personally rather keep my m90 than run a turbo, but that's just me, and i don't compromise on my Fiero, so it's not worth discussing any more about turbo's, i wouldn't go to a ford dealership to ask a question about a new Chevy.


But back to the subject at hand, would there be any benefit of dropping compression to 8:1 for a twin screw set up? and does anyone know how small of a camshaft i would be able to run and still make my hp goal (500 at the crank) assuming i have ported heads, intercooler, the whole shebang?
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Honestly not one thing about that post was even close to right.

Turbos make "more power without down shifting" because duh, the supercharger runs off RPM... not exhaust energy which can be created well before rpm is.... If you are trying to compare a turbo fiero making 650hp to a 1.8 120hp car... you are just plain doing it wrong.

Dropping compression makes less power... the cam you run is not based on "size"... the cam needs to be designed around the octane fuel you want to run and the specifics of how you are going to run your blower and exhaust. Ported heads are nice, but they are not a very big in the equation of a boosted car's setup.
 


OP politely asks to not talk about turbos, multiple times.
People talk about turbos.

GPF.

OP there's no reason to run lower compression than what a stock L67/L32 runs. Ported heads are a good idea for supercharged application. Any time you can increase the Volumetric efficiency of the engine you should do it. Engine's that flow more air allow the supercharger to run more efficiently as well. Regarding the cam, you're going to want something like an Intense stage 3. Should be plenty!
 
not choosing sides here, but as far as a "small" cam... lift isn't everything. duration and lobe separation angle are huge variables within the engine, not only for how much power, but for when it comes.
 
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