'97 Wheel bearings & brakes & rotor questions

[Eltory]

My '97 grand prix was due to get a brake job, the pads are down to 2mm in front and 3mm in back.

Today, I was getting a noise from one of the front wheels, sounds like a howling noise, and that seems to imply that is the wheel bearings going bad.
It seems that the easiest way to diagnose which wheel, and if it is the wheel bearings is, to jack up the car on one side, block the other tire, and set the parking brake, and finally, start the car and let that wheel spin. If the noise is there, then it is that wheel. If not, do the same to the other side.

At least that is the plan. Only hiccup of that plan is, I don't have a floor jack (yet), only the scissor one, and I don't have jack stands (yet), but, I do have 3 ton ramps, each one weighs 65lbs.

Looking under the car, the spot where the jack goes close to the wheel is all bent (called pinchweld?) & rusted. No idea how it got bent, never really used jacks on the car before. It has been on lifts before though, could that have been it?
Anyway, I was thinking of using the 3 ton ramps as a safety measure with some 4x6 wood on top to make sure the car doesn't fall down with the scissors jack.


If it is the wheel bearing, would you guys go with Duralast Wheel Bearing/Hub Assembly, or with MOOG http://www.autozone.com/suspension-...heel-bearing-hub-assembly-frnt/831195_0_22589 ?

For brakes, looking at metal (because of harsh winter weather) http://www.autozone.com/brakes-and-...s/duralast-gold-brake-pads/529527_855548_3773

But, how do I know if the rotors need changing? I would get these http://www.autozone.com/brakes-and-...rotor/duralast-brake-rotor/118053_865038_2708 if they need changing. From what I can see through the spokes, they look smooth still.

I rather shop local, just because it is easier to swap out parts in case they go bad.

Oh, and for what it is worth, I just retired now, which is why I haven't done any work on the car before myself. This will be my first project.
Looking to save $$$ where I can, they tell me this car is only worth $900 these days, not sure I want to pour lots of $$$ into it.
Oh, and I was also told that the 3800 engine has that gasket issue, and it will need to be changed, but that is a $1500 job I think the mechanic said, and he also said it is very common n the 3800 engine.


Any comments on any of the above is appreciated!

 

[EJOUIE]

Gasket is the LIM. Cheap part, lots of labor. Can be done without much fancy tools. Google it.

As for the wheel bearings, I would go with Moog of I had to choose between those options. Otherwise I would look into SKF. People say those last quite a bit longer than Moog even.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

 

[FordMan77]

Grab yourself a jack that can lift the car safely, and some stands. To diagnose a bad bearing I usually just jack the front end up and set the jack stands under the subframe so everything is suspended freely. Then grab the tire at 12 and 6 and push/pull on it. If there is play then the bearing is toast. For pads and rotors check out R1 concepts ( they are on ebay). For wheel bearings I would run nothing but Timken or SKF. All others have a lower life span and you will likely be in there in another year with anything else.

If the stock rotors can be turned then have that done and re-use them (as long as they meet the minimum thickness measurement), and then just get a quality set of pads.

And yes, the LIM gaskets need to be changed if the car does not have the updated aluminum ones. A coolant flush and change is also likely needed at this point, along with a new thermostat and rad cap.

Everything you listed is normal maint. items that we can help you with, so don't be afraid to tackle the job yourself.

 

[Fivefingerdeathpunch]

Smooth rotors don't mean they are good, ideally you always want new pads to mate with a new fresh surface. If the rotors have any lip on the inside or the outside edge near the fins it will cut grooves into the new pads.

If the rotors have no pulsing and are within spec you could have them turned if any local shop turn rotors. They would cut the rotors to provide you with a new clean surface but at the cost of new rotors it's almost not worth the cost to get them turned.


And easier and less maybe danger way to inspect the bearings is to just use your hands. A bearing that has play when you wiggle the wheel back and forth at 12 and 6 is a loose bearing. It will have movement when you go apply pressure up and down to check for play. You can also with the vehicle jacked up in the front end and vehicle in neutral, grab the coil spring on the strut and spin the tire with your other hand. The vibration of the bad bearing will transfer up through the strut and into the spring.

 

[Eltory]

Thank you kindly gents for the replies!

Will let everyone know what I found out, just waiting for it to stop raining!

 

[waupachino]

For the wheel hubs I've always had the best luck with used OEM. I got 2 coming from Morad Auto Parts right now. The hubs interchange all the way up to 2013+ with some models, so they're very easy to find used.

 

[BillBooost37]

actually.. wheel bearings will show play when wiggling at 12/6 and 9/3 both. Just 12/6 could also be a ball joint, 9/3 only could be a tie rod. If you have play in all ways..it's usually a wheel bearing. Also have a friend wiggle while you look to see where the play is.

Starting and running it with no weight on the wheel will likely tell you nothing. No pressure will mean no howl.

 

[Eltory]

Well, just got a floor jack, and jack stands, and looking under the car, not sure where the safest place I should put the jack stands would be?

The blue is where the floor jack will be, but, for the stands, looking at the locations that are in yellow, they are pretty rusted in those areas.
The pinchweld is mighty rusted as well, with some parts of it bent down (no idea why).

Where is the proper location I need to support the car with the stands if those areas are rusted? (If you can mark on the picture, that would be great! I am not too familiar with all the parts down there yet.)

actually.. wheel bearings will show play when wiggling at 12/6 and 9/3 both. Just 12/6 could also be a ball joint, 9/3 only could be a tie rod. If you have play in all ways..it's usually a wheel bearing. Also have a friend wiggle while you look to see where the play is.

Starting and running it with no weight on the wheel will likely tell you nothing. No pressure will mean no howl.

Was looking at these https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdRpnK5MGQ8 & https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cfut3_EK2k8 but, I'll try the 12/6 & 9/3 first.

 

[FordMan77]

If the rockers are rusty then don't set the weight of the car on them or they could crush things. I usually just set my jackstands under the subframe, right next to where #3 is on your diagram. Or I set them up front on either side of the jack as far out as possible to ensure good weight distribution. As long as the stands are flat and can't tip and the car doesn't rock then I'm good to go. I usually leave the jack just under it as well just in case. Can NEVER be too safe under a car. You don't want to know what it's like to have a car start to slide off a jack and/or stands while you're under it, trust me.

 

[Eltory]

If the rockers are rusty then don't set the weight of the car on them or they could crush things. I usually just set my jackstands under the subframe, right next to where #3 is on your diagram. Or I set them up front on either side of the jack as far out as possible to ensure good weight distribution. As long as the stands are flat and can't tip and the car doesn't rock then I'm good to go. I usually leave the jack just under it as well just in case. Can NEVER be too safe under a car. You don't want to know what it's like to have a car start to slide off a jack and/or stands while you're under it, trust me.

This is the "V" the manual talks about.. however, it looks like this.

Not sure that can hold the car's weight with jack stands.

A bit over from that area is this:

On the other side, the other "V":

and what it looks like from that side of the car:

I read that this can be a floor jack point as well:

So, directly across from #3 are those plate things with the oblong holes, is that what you mean to place jack stands at?
Or do you mean directly behind that plate?

 

[Scottydoggs]

my pinches dont look much better, its the metal around them thats needs to be solid still.

mine sat for a month on stands when i lost the tranny. had it on stands countless times before this as well.

 

[FordMan77]

The big rubber mount is the subframe bushing. The large chunk of steel that it is a part of is the subframe. It's what the motor and trans is bolted to. It's the same thing that you use to jack the front end up with. I'd just set the stands on that at the corners and call it done. I'd hate to see the stands go through the body at the pinch welds on ya.

 

[Eltory]

The big rubber mount is the subframe bushing. The large chunk of steel that it is a part of is the subframe. It's what the motor and trans is bolted to. It's the same thing that you use to jack the front end up with. I'd just set the stands on that at the corners and call it done. I'd hate to see the stands go through the body at the pinch welds on ya.

Yeah, I think I'll go this route, seems to be the safest, was seeing how bad the rust was, and I could use a small nail to push through parts of it.

For the rust, do I bother spraying it with rust inhibitor, the clear stuff that turns the metal black? I don't recall what the brand name is.

 

[Eltory]

Well, jacked the car up in the front via the frame rail in the center of it, and used jack stands on the sides of that, and I saw this...

That is on the passenger side, I don't know what it is called, on the right side, those pieces are still together.

So, how tough of a job is it to fix that, and could that have been causing the noise?

 

[Scottydoggs]

sway bar end links, i bet she makes left turns like crap dont it? they come in pairs, for like 10 bucks, replace both.

you also need to take close look at the end of the sway bar, they crack just past that hole the bolt and bushings belong in.

 

[Eltory]

Sway bar? Hmm, I'll have to check that closer tomorrow.

Back in post #8, in the diagram location #2, that is what I used to get both wheels up, and that is where I stuck the jack stands as well on either side of that metal frame.

If I want only 1 wheel up, I can see next to #3 point (since actual #3 point is too rusted), I would place the jack stand there on the frame below that metal plate in the picture in post #10, but, where would I stick the floor jack, since there isn't enough room for both?

 

[Scottydoggs]

i set the jacks cup right over the sub frame bolt when lifting one side. use the middle front sub frame to lift the whole front.

and the sway bar and end link

 

[gingerdude]

I jack up via the center of the subframes (1 and 6). For the fronts I put the jack stands on the same subframe bar right on the corners where it turns towards the back. The two edges sit right down into my jack stands perfectly. For the rears I put the jack stands on the unibody boxed frame close to where the fuel filter is on one side. If I have to drop the front subframe I also put the stands on this bar at the front of the vehicle.

Basically I try to avoid the pinch welds as much as possible. They are still pretty bent up from shops using them though. I had to repaint them last year.

 

[Eltory]

i set the jacks cup right over the sub frame bolt when lifting one side. use the middle front sub frame to lift the whole front.

and the sway bar and end link

I believe that image host you are using is blocking the pics, it says 'Please update your account to support 3rd party hosting., and you can't click on them. I use http://postimages.org/ to host them then link them here.

 

[Eltory]

Well, after lifting the car, I rotated the tires by hand, and it sounds like the brake pad is still touching the rotors? They still spin, but, some grinding type noise is heard on both of them. Car was in Park, emergency brake engaged (which only works on back wheels I think).

I tested both wheels, at 12/6 and 3/9, there was no play in either of them. The tie rods on both side are also tight, no play in them.


Took off the passenger wheel, and that swaybar is indeed broken, it looks hollow, and is rusted pretty badly. No idea how anyone can get to the bolt locations that is holding that, there isn't any room to get a tool in there!

I put the tire back on, and did a little test drive again, the noise (not grinding sounding, more like a groan or howling) happens when driving from 10-25 MPH, then I don't really hear anything faster than that, or on highway speeds.

So, it don't seem to be the wheel bearings?
Any idea what it could be, or is there a better test to see if it is the wheel bearings?