Abbott Racing heads
- Thread starter Blacknitews6
- Start date
GTPpower
New member
The only thing you are really going to need to change to get into the 11's, is basically turning up the boost a little. You may also need race fuel or e85, which will require a bigger pump and injectors.
If you want to run race fuel, you can get by with a 255 pump and 60lb injectors. If you want to run e85, you should get a 450 pump and 80 or 95lb injectors.
As said, the trans is the weak point. But if you are going to try and get by on the stock trans, get some slicks on a 15" wheel. They are much easier on the trans than a drag radial.
Blacknitews6
New member
I like that...just upping the boost might get me 11.9's would be great. For months i've been looking at parts on ZZP's site. When i wrote that like a few post ago I was more or less listing my major parts. Here's the other things i know i'll need and want:
A upgraded fuel rail
60# injectors (don't want to run 42.5's cause they'll be close to maxing out, IMHO)
Maybe the ZZP in tank pump, or maybe the AEM pump
Fuel pump rewire kit
Likely the L67 to L36 intake kit, since i plan on at 14/15 psi
Ported TB, i think ZZP says to use the L36 TB. I wanted to if that's the case, or can i keep the L67 TB
I like the larger radiator and 180* stat
Then of course the the Aeroforce Gauge and a pillar pod
Maybe the AEM boost controller
That's my lasted wish list...lol. Do those parts help with power and some higher reliability?
Blacknitews6
New member
Oh that's not counting about the suspension and braking **** i want to do.
I did this stuff to my 2002 WS6 A4. I swore i wasn't gonna mod it like i did on 1999 Camaro SS M6.
But i added ported heads, a 216/220 cam, flp headers, borla exhaust, vig.3600, slp air lid, holley power filter
and i programed the car myself when LS1-Edit first came out. I used auto-tap as well and programed the car on the highway.
The only trick thing was getting the idle as perfect as stock. Which i did. I raised the idle speed to 850rpm in gear and 850rpm
in park. The car loved it since my vig.3600 was loose at idle. When i shift out of part to reverse or drive the rpm's stayed at 850 rpm.
No hunting idle at all, it was perfect. It took time, like getting the idle counts down to 35 to 38 counts when that engine was fully warmed.
My LTFT's were showing about 12 to 15 % rich. And since no one had LS1 Edit at that time LS1tech had no advice on certain issues.
So was sitting as work and i was thinking how i could lean the idle out. I EDIT it by pulling some fuel in the idle area just a little.
The car still surged a little bit. Next i went into the idle area again and actually raised the timing in the idle circuit( between zero rpm and 900 rpm)
Since performance cams all run a little dirty or rich at idle I tried just adding some timing in that lower rpm ONLY. It started to idle like a stock cam.
So all together i raised the idle to 850 in park and in gear, raised some timing again in that 400 rpm to maybe 1000 to 1200 rpm and pulled only
some fuel in that idle rpm range. And after a few tweaks since i have a stall i did some line pressure changes and shift point, etc.
The car started and idles perfect at 1200 rpm during cold start, the idle slowly worked down to about 850 rpm to 900 rpm and was rock steady.
Even when i revved it, the engine revved up then slowly moved back to 900 rpm. When i turned the AC on there was no issue, when i turned the wheel
hard right to left, they rpm only dropped a few hundred rpm then recovered perfectly. Even after driving it hard then braking hard and turning it
into a hard turn the car didn't surge a bit. I miss the hell out of it, but life steps in and F's things up and i had to sell it.
Sorry for the long post i apologize to you guys. This came up cause i saw a '97 black firehawk yesterday so i got thinking...lol.
Thanks guys especially GTPpower...he's been a great help. I'm getting fired up to the point to put a GTP into the 11's like my WS6 which was NA by the way
She's missed.
I did this stuff to my 2002 WS6 A4. I swore i wasn't gonna mod it like i did on 1999 Camaro SS M6.
But i added ported heads, a 216/220 cam, flp headers, borla exhaust, vig.3600, slp air lid, holley power filter
and i programed the car myself when LS1-Edit first came out. I used auto-tap as well and programed the car on the highway.
The only trick thing was getting the idle as perfect as stock. Which i did. I raised the idle speed to 850rpm in gear and 850rpm
in park. The car loved it since my vig.3600 was loose at idle. When i shift out of part to reverse or drive the rpm's stayed at 850 rpm.
No hunting idle at all, it was perfect. It took time, like getting the idle counts down to 35 to 38 counts when that engine was fully warmed.
My LTFT's were showing about 12 to 15 % rich. And since no one had LS1 Edit at that time LS1tech had no advice on certain issues.
So was sitting as work and i was thinking how i could lean the idle out. I EDIT it by pulling some fuel in the idle area just a little.
The car still surged a little bit. Next i went into the idle area again and actually raised the timing in the idle circuit( between zero rpm and 900 rpm)
Since performance cams all run a little dirty or rich at idle I tried just adding some timing in that lower rpm ONLY. It started to idle like a stock cam.
So all together i raised the idle to 850 in park and in gear, raised some timing again in that 400 rpm to maybe 1000 to 1200 rpm and pulled only
some fuel in that idle rpm range. And after a few tweaks since i have a stall i did some line pressure changes and shift point, etc.
The car started and idles perfect at 1200 rpm during cold start, the idle slowly worked down to about 850 rpm to 900 rpm and was rock steady.
Even when i revved it, the engine revved up then slowly moved back to 900 rpm. When i turned the AC on there was no issue, when i turned the wheel
hard right to left, they rpm only dropped a few hundred rpm then recovered perfectly. Even after driving it hard then braking hard and turning it
into a hard turn the car didn't surge a bit. I miss the hell out of it, but life steps in and F's things up and i had to sell it.
Sorry for the long post i apologize to you guys. This came up cause i saw a '97 black firehawk yesterday so i got thinking...lol.
Thanks guys especially GTPpower...he's been a great help. I'm getting fired up to the point to put a GTP into the 11's like my WS6 which was NA by the way
She's missed.
Blacknitews6
New member
Thanks for in info. It's that radiator larger or thicker than the stocker?
Scottydoggs
Killa Bee
n/a engines came with a 5/8 th thick rad, s/c came with a one inch thick. so a 1 5/16 is a bit larger.
i cant see upgrading the rad, i went from a 1 inch to a 5/8, im supercharged and temps are 100% the same. no hotter or colder. still running a 195 t stat too. even with all them mods listed down there VVVVVV lol
i cant see upgrading the rad, i went from a 1 inch to a 5/8, im supercharged and temps are 100% the same. no hotter or colder. still running a 195 t stat too. even with all them mods listed down there VVVVVV lol
Blacknitews6
New member
man not i'm not sure now. Since i'm adding a turbo and a stall i was concerned that the stock radiator wasn't close
to being good enough. For a supercharged car with some mods maybe. But a turbo, ZZP St2 came plus other mods i posted on this thread
I can't see NOT upgrading the cooling system. But that's for the advice.
Scottydoggs
Killa Bee
id be a 100% more concerned about the built tranny your gonna need. even lower boost what you say 12 psi? is not the same as 12 psi on a blower.
the engines not gonna run any hotter then it already does now. as far as cooling, ive down graded my rad, a new w/p still run the 195 stat, and have the fans tuned to 180. car runs cooler then stock, 170 all winter, and 200 ish in summer heat.
gm engines are made to run their best at 200 to 210º. thats their best operating range i suppose as every gm car ive been in runs right at 210.
unless you plan to hot lap it and have a electric water pump to help cool it between runs. yup more money spent. or wasted lol
the engines not gonna run any hotter then it already does now. as far as cooling, ive down graded my rad, a new w/p still run the 195 stat, and have the fans tuned to 180. car runs cooler then stock, 170 all winter, and 200 ish in summer heat.
gm engines are made to run their best at 200 to 210º. thats their best operating range i suppose as every gm car ive been in runs right at 210.
unless you plan to hot lap it and have a electric water pump to help cool it between runs. yup more money spent. or wasted lol
Blacknitews6
New member
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Blacknitews6
New member
That's really good news. I was even looking at the larger rad. that ZZP makes. Then i saw their big rad. on car on youtube. I thought it was nice. With the ZZP large rad. I felt it was a no brainer . I don't want to think they wanted a stock 15 year old rad will become an issue. With all the money i'll spend on a killer setup, I wouldn't want a rad. to be a cause of issues. that wouldn't make sense to me. I believe in doing it right the first time.
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Blacknitews6
New member
Well i copied and pasted what they do on the Stage 1 setup:
GM 3800 Series II V-6
Abbott Racing Stage 1 Cylinder Heads*,**These heads feature:
• ARH Competition valve job
• Bowl porting in the intake and exhaust ports
• Decks are milled .005" to ensure a flat gasket surface
• Comp 130# valve springs
• Comp steel retainers
• Guides cut down to clear high lift cams
• New valve seals
• Assembled and ready to run
• Check for cracks
These heads are for the cost conscious person who wants a little bit of port work, but are not ready for the all-out job. The bowls are ported to make the transition into and out of the combustion chamber as smooth and free-flowing as possible.
Blacknitews6
New member
That looks a lot better than what a DIY guy can do in his garage. When my 241 heads were being ported
i thought it was cool. Yes i know the L67 heads are iron an they're forgiving but porting is porting. It's knowing where to touch and not to touch. I don't want a hogged out set of heads with expensive after market valves or hogged out runners. When my 241 heads were removed, we flowed them on a Superflow 600 bench and we flowed the first runner. It flowed about 225 to 230 cfm on heads straight of the car.
So the head porter did 90% of the work in the valve guide area, and only cleaning the runners which helped him with the blending everything.
Well the final flow testing showed that the intake runners flowed well over 275 to 280 cfm. It was why my full weight WS6 ran a best
of 11.73. With a Comp 216/220 114lsa came. It shows that those fully ported heads look great cause the runners are all shiney an the vales are all polished up. Then the guys that bought those heads would wonder why they were getting their ass kicked at the track. And they spent a fortune on those heads...lol. I seen it at Atco plenty of times. You see, my heads were ported ONLY in the area where the highest flow was. And i has stock valves to boot. In philly i raced a guy in a 1995 Mustang that was bore out to 330 cid if i remember correctly. It had a Vortech blower plus racing slicks on the back
and skinnies on the front. So i hear him pull into the parking lot. I could hear the blower of course. So when every one was leaving i walked up to him and asked him if he wanted to race. Well, we walks around my cars and started laughing. He says" man you don't even have slicks". I had my original F1's on all 4 wheels. He agrees to race of course. Well i followed him to Roosevelt Blvd. We line up at The intersection of Roosevelt and Southampton road. If light turns green and before i was 60 feet out, i was a head of him by 3 cars atleast. So he said he missed a shift and wanted to race
again. Well we drive around to get back to the same intersection. I had a Vig3600 stall, so i foot break the car and once the light changes i felt hard as hell. But was a closer race. I only beat with by 2 car lengths...lol. He wanted me to pull into a store parking lot. He jumps out of his mustang and starts yelling because he thought i had a nitrous kit in my car. And says there's no way you should've beaten me. He says " must have a bottle in the car".
We and my buddy laughed hard as hell. So i open the hood, and trunk and both of my doors. He was looking all over the car for a nitrous kit. And i told that he had balls to accuse me of having a bottle, since his engine was worked, and he had a Vortech blower on his car AND i small bottle in his glove. It's know as a sneaky pete in Philly. So i get him if he could find any nitrous kit in my car i'll pay him $1,000. And if he couldn't i told
him to pay me $1,000. Of course he did not go for it...lol. So one the way home a 2002 yellow ZO6 pulls up next to me at a light. My buddy roles the window down and calls him out. i was going crazy...It was a damn god sounding ZO6 with a body kit on it. My buddy asked him if his car was fast. The says
it's powerful enough to beat that Trans Am. Well my buddy calls his car a ugly POS...lol. The guy was ready to race. Again i load my converter up, then boom the light changes and i leave hard, even on my stock turns. Well after a few seconds the guy just turns of down a side road...lol
Well i know i typed another long ass post but really my point is, that cars that have bigger runners in their heads doesn't guarantee a win. My intake runners were stock size, 205 cfm. But my bowl, throat and my valves wereunshrouded then milled to they sealed without leaks. This is why i was interested in Abbott's stage 1 heads. Cause he knows the areas where to touch to get good flow, but more importantly his work increases the velocity. And she does about the same in the exhaust runners. If you by heads that look nice and shiney with hogged out
intake runners, you all ready loss the race if you're going to use them in a street car. The guys with stage 1 style heads and with a cam that matches will love driving it on the street from light to light cause they'll have the torque which will get them from one light to the other faster than they thought was
possible in a full weight car
i thought it was cool. Yes i know the L67 heads are iron an they're forgiving but porting is porting. It's knowing where to touch and not to touch. I don't want a hogged out set of heads with expensive after market valves or hogged out runners. When my 241 heads were removed, we flowed them on a Superflow 600 bench and we flowed the first runner. It flowed about 225 to 230 cfm on heads straight of the car.
So the head porter did 90% of the work in the valve guide area, and only cleaning the runners which helped him with the blending everything.
Well the final flow testing showed that the intake runners flowed well over 275 to 280 cfm. It was why my full weight WS6 ran a best
of 11.73. With a Comp 216/220 114lsa came. It shows that those fully ported heads look great cause the runners are all shiney an the vales are all polished up. Then the guys that bought those heads would wonder why they were getting their ass kicked at the track. And they spent a fortune on those heads...lol. I seen it at Atco plenty of times. You see, my heads were ported ONLY in the area where the highest flow was. And i has stock valves to boot. In philly i raced a guy in a 1995 Mustang that was bore out to 330 cid if i remember correctly. It had a Vortech blower plus racing slicks on the back
and skinnies on the front. So i hear him pull into the parking lot. I could hear the blower of course. So when every one was leaving i walked up to him and asked him if he wanted to race. Well, we walks around my cars and started laughing. He says" man you don't even have slicks". I had my original F1's on all 4 wheels. He agrees to race of course. Well i followed him to Roosevelt Blvd. We line up at The intersection of Roosevelt and Southampton road. If light turns green and before i was 60 feet out, i was a head of him by 3 cars atleast. So he said he missed a shift and wanted to race
again. Well we drive around to get back to the same intersection. I had a Vig3600 stall, so i foot break the car and once the light changes i felt hard as hell. But was a closer race. I only beat with by 2 car lengths...lol. He wanted me to pull into a store parking lot. He jumps out of his mustang and starts yelling because he thought i had a nitrous kit in my car. And says there's no way you should've beaten me. He says " must have a bottle in the car".
We and my buddy laughed hard as hell. So i open the hood, and trunk and both of my doors. He was looking all over the car for a nitrous kit. And i told that he had balls to accuse me of having a bottle, since his engine was worked, and he had a Vortech blower on his car AND i small bottle in his glove. It's know as a sneaky pete in Philly. So i get him if he could find any nitrous kit in my car i'll pay him $1,000. And if he couldn't i told
him to pay me $1,000. Of course he did not go for it...lol. So one the way home a 2002 yellow ZO6 pulls up next to me at a light. My buddy roles the window down and calls him out. i was going crazy...It was a damn god sounding ZO6 with a body kit on it. My buddy asked him if his car was fast. The says
it's powerful enough to beat that Trans Am. Well my buddy calls his car a ugly POS...lol. The guy was ready to race. Again i load my converter up, then boom the light changes and i leave hard, even on my stock turns. Well after a few seconds the guy just turns of down a side road...lol
Well i know i typed another long ass post but really my point is, that cars that have bigger runners in their heads doesn't guarantee a win. My intake runners were stock size, 205 cfm. But my bowl, throat and my valves wereunshrouded then milled to they sealed without leaks. This is why i was interested in Abbott's stage 1 heads. Cause he knows the areas where to touch to get good flow, but more importantly his work increases the velocity. And she does about the same in the exhaust runners. If you by heads that look nice and shiney with hogged out
intake runners, you all ready loss the race if you're going to use them in a street car. The guys with stage 1 style heads and with a cam that matches will love driving it on the street from light to light cause they'll have the torque which will get them from one light to the other faster than they thought was
possible in a full weight car
ItHurtz
Active member
Sounds like for $800 your getting a casting removed port job.
All you need to know
http://www.grandprixforums.net/threads/71197-Basic-3800-DIY-Head-Porting-Guide
All you need to know
http://www.grandprixforums.net/threads/71197-Basic-3800-DIY-Head-Porting-Guide
wowitsfast
New member
looks like more then that. milled deck valve job 130 springs guides adjusted.
shrug seems ok for the money.. never priced the work at a machine shop. no one around here(including me) knows anything about these engines but I think it would be a push to have the same work done. maybe save some money on diy porting
shrug seems ok for the money.. never priced the work at a machine shop. no one around here(including me) knows anything about these engines but I think it would be a push to have the same work done. maybe save some money on diy porting
Blacknitews6
New member
ITHURTZ (quote)Sounds like for $800 your getting a casting removed port job.(quote)
Didn't you read post # 33? I wouldn't just be getting my heads removed and a port job. It just sounds foolish.
Again look at my post number 33. I didn't type it up. I cut and pasted it. Having all those items done is worth between $750 to $800.
You sound like someone that's never worked on heads. Because just dropping them off to a machine shop can get costly. They inspect the heads
for cracks, they machine the valve seats so they match up with the valves after the valves get a 3 angle valve job completed
Then there's the cost for the heads being milled. Add in the cost for the shop to install the valves and springs. For this work and i haven't brought up
the cost for the porting yet. Then add in the cost for porting the heads. It adds up very fast. So why do a home DIY cause most people don't have any or very little machines to DIY their heads. And abbott, who i was looking into, doesn't really cost that much for what they do, and he backs his work. You get a set of heads that are ready to be bolted to the car.
Didn't you read post # 33? I wouldn't just be getting my heads removed and a port job. It just sounds foolish.
Again look at my post number 33. I didn't type it up. I cut and pasted it. Having all those items done is worth between $750 to $800.
You sound like someone that's never worked on heads. Because just dropping them off to a machine shop can get costly. They inspect the heads
for cracks, they machine the valve seats so they match up with the valves after the valves get a 3 angle valve job completed
Then there's the cost for the heads being milled. Add in the cost for the shop to install the valves and springs. For this work and i haven't brought up
the cost for the porting yet. Then add in the cost for porting the heads. It adds up very fast. So why do a home DIY cause most people don't have any or very little machines to DIY their heads. And abbott, who i was looking into, doesn't really cost that much for what they do, and he backs his work. You get a set of heads that are ready to be bolted to the car.
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GTPpower
New member
It's not a bad deal for the money. But forced induction works completely different. You will gain almost nothing on your car from ported heads.
As for your list above, I have the following comments.
Upgraded fuel rails are mostly for looks. The stock fuel rails have proven to flow enough fuel for over 600whp.
I would go with 80lb injectors. 60's are borderline if you want to run e85 down the road sometime.
Either pump will work fine.
Like the heads, a ported tb will do nothing.
Your stock radiator will most likely be fine, but it's a good idea to watch your temps. I do like 180° tstats because they help keep the trans cooler.
And the pump rewire kit....dont buy from zzp. Get a caspers or racetronix.
As for your list above, I have the following comments.
Upgraded fuel rails are mostly for looks. The stock fuel rails have proven to flow enough fuel for over 600whp.
I would go with 80lb injectors. 60's are borderline if you want to run e85 down the road sometime.
Either pump will work fine.
Like the heads, a ported tb will do nothing.
Your stock radiator will most likely be fine, but it's a good idea to watch your temps. I do like 180° tstats because they help keep the trans cooler.
And the pump rewire kit....dont buy from zzp. Get a caspers or racetronix.
Blacknitews6
New member
Thanks for the advice. about the rewire kit. I agree with you about the 180 therm. And the reasons are 2 fold. First, the lower temp. helps against
detonation and secondly are PCM's with stay in open loop until 160 degrees. So a 160 stat. keeps the PCM on the teetering edge between open and closed loop.
It's good that you bring up ported heads. Tim at ZZP and other shop owners that know their stuff about heads told me that porting heads aren't worth doing on turbo setups. Now on blower setups and with large cams the ported heads can make a larger gain then on turbo setups.
As far as fuel rails go they aren't really for looks. Sure they might be on guys that are keeping their blower. But on turbo setups that don't use the
M90 case with the block off plate. Adding the ZZP conversion will help spool the turbo faster over a M90 with block off plate. You can use modified fuel rails if you need to.
If guys stay with premium gasoline 60# Deka injectors are fine for guys that aren't going to the track all the time and don't large amounts of boost.
Blacknitews6
New member
Thanks for the advice. about the rewire kit. I agree with you about the 180 therm. And the reasons are 2 fold. First, the lower temp. helps against
detonation and secondly are PCM's with stay in open loop until 160 degrees. So a 160 stat. keeps the PCM on the teetering edge between open and closed loop.
It's good that you bring up ported heads. Tim at ZZP and other shop owners that know their stuff about heads told me that porting heads aren't worth doing on turbo setups. Now on blower setups and with large cams the ported heads can make a larger gain then on turbo setups.
As far as fuel rails go they aren't really for looks. Sure they might be on guys that are keeping their blower. But on turbo setups that don't use the
M90 case with the block off plate. Adding the ZZP conversion will help spool the turbo faster over a M90 with block off plate. You can use modified fuel rails if you need to.
If guys stay with premium gasoline 60# Deka injectors are fine for guys that aren't going to the track all the time and don't large amounts of boost. I'm glad you mentioned that the Racetronix fuel pump is good. I like them back when i owned my LS1 powered '99 Camaro SS M6 and my
'02 WS6 A4. Like i said many times: Thanks GTPpower for your recommended support on what we new W-body guys need to know.
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