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Which STOCK timing set has 0 degrees advance for the cam timing? L36 or L67?

S

stiv2k

New member
Hello grand prix forums!

I have been searching for the answer to this question but have yet to find anything definitive. Hopefully some 3800 veterans on here can point me in the right direction.

I'm working on a top swap build with the INTENSE Stage 1x performance package. That includes the S1X cam, LS7 lifters, 105# springs, and a JP single roller timing set.

Well, several people have advised me NOT to use the JP single roller setup, and to use a stock timing set instead. The thing is, the L36 timing set and the L67 timing set are not quite the same. One of them has advanced cam timing 2 degrees relative to the other. But, I don't know which one!

INTENSE recommends installing the S1X cam at 0 degrees timing advance ("striaght up"), as the camshaft has timing advance already built into the cam profile. So I need to figure out which STOCK timing set is keyed that way, in order to keep things consistent. I am looking on RockAuto and the CLOYES part number for the L36 timing set is C3214 and the part number for the L67 timing set is C3215. Which one is designed for 0 degrees advance?

Thank you!
 


They're not the same. If they were, CLOYES would have used the same timing set for both engines. They don't. Also, there are several threads discussing it, but nobody says definitively which one is at 0 degrees advance. Just that one is retarded / advanced relative to the other. Here are a couple:

http://www.3800pro.com/forum/cams-heads-valvetrain/46730-l67-installing-l36-timing-set.html

http://www.gmforum.com/general-gm-chat-88/l67-l36-timing-set-interchangeable-265646/page2/


EDIT: It seems that the difference between the 2 timing sets is the cam sprocket. The chain and the crank sprocket are the same.
 
Rock Auto lists Ultra-Power part number C3214 for both, but notes it as L26 engine design.

With your mods, why not make things easier and get a rollmaster double and let your tune adjust the timing?
 
based on the suggestion of overkill, I would get a stock timing chain set. I think the easiest way to verify you are getting the right timing chain would be to call the dealership and find out what part number they have for the stock chain set.
 


a double roller is more work, because you also have to remove the balancer gear, and then you have more vibration.
 
SgtMarshal said:
based on the suggestion of overkill, I would get a stock timing chain set. I think the easiest way to verify you are getting the right timing chain would be to call the dealership and find out what part number they have for the stock chain set.
Click to expand...

Yes I am planning on using a stock timing set. But the question is, which one? I already have the part numbers for both, but I don't know which one (the L36 set or the L67 set) is timed at 0 degrees and which one is advanced/retarded.
 
All of the cams made for this motor are designed to be run straight up. Most of them have around 4 degrees advance ground into the cam, so advancing them further, especially without checking piston to valve clearance, is not wise.
 


Yes exactly. Which is why I posted this thread, to figure out which stock timing set is "straight up" and which timing set is advanced. Again, the L36 and L67 timing sets are not identical. One is straight up and one is advanced. But nobody seems to know which is which?
 
I ran a rollmaster double with my XP cam (which is slightly bigger than the S1X) set dot to dot, and it was fine.

I didn't have to worry about which stock chain was advanced that way, and it held up to a lot of abuse. No, you don't NEED a double, but it is recommended for a 3800 with any valve spring upgrade.

Yes you need a $55 machined oil pump cover and ZZP recommends a $10 thicker gasket, but it's worth it IMO.
 
I assure you there is. It is about a 2 degrees difference. Even the ACDelco part numbers are different for the two engines. They didn't do that by accident.
 
well, let's put it this way. the s1x was made for an L67. so even if the cam gear has 2 degrees of advance they KNEW THAT ALREADY and still designed the cam how it is.

run the L67 timing set. don't worry about "zero" advance.
 


All you need to install is a new stock cloyes chain and damper,why change anything else if you're not going with a double roller?
 
I'm not changing anything else, i just wasn't sure which cloyes part to order. But Bio248 makes a good point, the cam was designed for the L67 so the L67 part number is probably the best bet. I wish i had both sets so I can compare them to the JP set and see which one is actually straight up.
 
lets think about this
the cam was designed to run on a l67 si was ground using l67 cam timing
that means that l67 stock chain and gears would place it at zero advance

ooooooor since your insistant on having someone give u an awnser get a degree wheel kid and dial indicator and find out for yourself witch one get u the installed icl you want then you can do everyone a great service and find out most definitively witch chain and gear set has more or less advance in it
my personal guess I neither are any different
the s1x cam having advance built in to it is pretty damn normal most cam manufacurers grind in 2-4* od advance to help midrange and low end power anyways
 
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