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Hinson Heads ___S3x___or S2x? What Timing setup?

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I plan on getting some Hinson heads done for a build I am thinking about. Nothing like Stage 4 ported heads but just enough which seems a lot go for. I am pretty sure I want to go Intense S3x cam but should I even consider an S2x?

130# crows and Manley retainers will be used. What's the most problem free timing setup out there right now for a build like mine? Is a Jp single roller or Rollmaster okay? Or is a double roller required? < machined front cover and oilpump cover needed from what I remember?

I will be stock lower end and will be using genuine Gm headgaskets. Should I even think about doing head studs?
 


I dont think head studs are required, they can cause problems if not installed correctly, but they are dramatically stronger. if you do 130 lb springs you have to do a double roller timing chain. I dont know much about the intense S?X cams, but I have a set of his ported heads and an xp cam with a full size phenolic intercooler and am running a 2.8 currently with plans to drop another pulley. your best bet is to speak with Chris as he knows his heads better than anyone and can make the best recommendation. Good luck, let us know how it goes.
 
Do head studs since you are pulling them off.

Since the heads are coming off, get a bigger cam...IS3, XPZ, etc.

Get a double roller. Don't think about running a single roller.
 
If i went single on 130s is that just going to break the chain eventually? With double i must remove the balance shaft right? Is there a vendor that makes a block off plate/plug to seal an oiling hole when the balance shaft is removed? I was thinking about the intense stage 3 or 2 cam. I have run the s1x and was happy years back. But its time for a change in this build. I just dont want anything too crazy and not daily driveable.
 
You are going to want a double roller with 130# springs. That weight of spring is pretty hard on the stock dampner.

Is3 is a pretty aggressive can...you may not like it for daily driving. I've also never been much of a fan of is2. It won't make much, if any more power than your s1x.

Check YouTube for idle vids of each can.

I would highly recommend an xpz in your situation. Great idle, and the same power as a is3.
 
you dont have to remove the balance shaft but the balance shaft gear has to come off, its probably better if you dont. this is from zzp's website To run the *double roller, the balance shaft gear must be removed. To save additional weight the balance shaft can removed altogether but this requires plugging the rear oiling hole. The Rollmaster has a much tighter fit, so the timing chain tensioner is no longer used.

I dont think anyone makes a balance shaft delete kit.

this is from zzp's website: 125+ # valve springs are too much for the stock timing chain and dampener, the Rollmaster timing chain is thicker than stock, so you will also want the machined oil pump cover and either two standard front cover gaskets or our garlock front cover gasket to give the Rollmaster some extra clearance

edit for additional info: if you do the double roller timing chain it is a good idea to get the crank pulley machined for a proper fit. the double roller will go on and work but its not a perfect fit. taking the double roller to a machine shop with an oem roller for them to match will help a lot. while you are there, if you have an extra front cover plate with the oil pump cover still on, you can have them take the oil pump cover off and machine a small amount off then reinstall it. I cant remember exactly how much has to come off but its something like .005"

 


I deleted the balance shaft and pluged the rear with a Dodge 440 cam bearing that fits into the balance shaft hole. just make sure you clock the oil hole 180 degrees from where it should be and you'll be good
 
From what I can gather I can go two ways with this build.

I'm unsure on using head studs at this time? Any insight? I plan to use genuine gm head gaskets.

S1x/105's/Single Roller (I have run a stock timing setup before for S1x/105's for 15k about, years back.)

or

XP/130's/Double Roller

-Leave the balance shaft but remove the gear or remove all and plug the hole. I have that covered now.
-With the 130's these would be ran when shifting over 6200 rpm correct? As well as preventing valve float at the high rpms?
-I have read that with the Rollmaster Double the oil pump cover will need to be machined (as seen on zzp's site as well as being told here) I am not fond of doubling up on a front cover gasket as it will leak sooner plus with the cover being pushing out more won't the crank pulley eat away and the crank seal? Or is the 100% needed?
-Why will the crank pulley need to be machined as stated above?
-For the double roller having a snug fit (on the crank) when someone says chamfer to prevent this, is this an extensive thing to try and dremel down yourself? Will this make it so it slides on and off with no excessive effort? Or must a machine shop do this? What is it they are exactly doing?
 
I think if you do the balance shaft delete and plug the hole, it induces more vibration than normal. I think if you use the double roller that it wont go on unless you take the balance shaft gear off. Supposedly if you use 130 lb springs with the XP cam it makes more power because its a higher rpm cam, and limiting it to 6000 rpm limits the power it can make. I have the xp cam and 90 lb springs and like it. I dont think it would be a good trade off to go from a S1X cam to an XP because they are similar. I would think a more aggressive cam would be in order. as far as the double roller crank gear machining, it is easy for a machine shop to do. I had it done to one I ended up selling and it took them like 10 minutes, the problem was that they wanted to see a stock crank gear to make sure they machined it correctly. there is a how to do it someplace here. I can show you before and after pictures of the crank gear so you have an idea. I do believe the oil pump cover does need to be machined, but I dont remember how much, or you can do the double gasket. you cant use a dremel to machine the crank pulley, it has to be perfectly round. here is a link to my photobucket for the before pictures of the crank gear. I might have a stock crank gear you can borrow if you pay shipping, I would have to look to make sure. and definitely change the crank seal with one from GM

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k560/johntremell/IMG_20140922_212249_787_zpsvd38sigq.jpg


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What are they actually machining? The key ways or the actual O where it slides onto the crank?

I'm sorry that I keep asking these questions but I like to do things once.
 


There are SO many threads out there covering this topic, using a double roller on a 3800 block... But here... The Double Roller was not made for this block. The DR crank gear on the back side is NOT chamfered and will not sit correctly thereby creating an offset between where the crank gear sits and the cam gear sits. This will lead the DR to fail. To fix this, the crank gear with the set needs to be machined and match the chamfer on the stock timing crank gear. It's easy to have done, or buy one that's already set up. Also, with the DR, you'll want an oil pump cover that is machined a bit too in order to create a little clearance and ensure the chain will not rub. Some use double timing cover gaskets to achieve the same, or both for extra comfort

Use the ARP Studs without worries, just do the proper preparations by cleaning the threads well and using SEALANT in the holes and on the studs. Use Grease on the threads and nuts and washers prior to torquing the heads down. Make sure you torque the heads in steps and in the proper sequence.

but use Google and search "Double Roller 3800" or add GrandPrix, add GranPrixForums.net on the end and you'll get links to threads here with the same.
 


Side note. I am using a 98 engine for my 02. Are the front timing covers the same but the alternator brackets are different? So all I need is a 99+ alt bracket?
 
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