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XPZ Cam People Step In. Help Please!

bbptech

bbptech

New member
Ok so i got the XPZ build done and had it running but long story short i had coolant leaking out of my studs so i pulled the motor back out and replaced head gaskets and did the right procedure with the studs.

I switched from Cometic MLS 4 Layer .052 thickness head gaskets to stock head gaskets because i didnt wanna deal with scraping all the copper spray off. Well i talked to ZZP to see which pushrods i need to run now since i have stock again and they said my 7.05s for exh. and 7.10s for int. will be fine. Well i got the head gaskets on and heads torqued down. put the pushrods back in the right areas. Went to tighten the rockers down to make sure my length was right before i put everything else back on and what do u know, THEY ARE TOO LONG.

I make sure one valve is open and one valve is closed before i start doing this. Started on cylinder 1, exhaust valve opened and intake closed so i started on the intake valve first. Started tightening the bolt and the valve starts to open. And yes the pedestals are on too.

This is so rediculous. The heads are ZZP CNC ported heads by the way

BBPTech
 


i know and the funny thing is i called turbo tim to tell him the ones i have now are too long and he started yelling at me telling me that pushrods are measured in so and so lengths and told me thats literally impossible and on and on. So i told him about awhile back u (as in tim) told me to get a pushrod length checker tool to get the right lengths and that i used that to get the lengths and the lengths i need now are shorter than even the stock pushrod. And he went on about how im making the company lose money by me sending him used parts back for new. Well what do u expect? for me to keep these pushrods that arent the right length now that i had to go back to stock head gaskets and only have no more than 15 minutes of idle time on them and then fork out another 100 or so bucks for another set of pushrods. Naw screw that.


And..


Oh wait... theres more. lol.


He said what do i gotta do to get this solved cause hes got so much tech support into this that he wants to be done with it. And that he has to answer over 100 emails a day and complained about how i email him with so many questions and problems im having with or about my build and that he has other things to focus on and such. theres alot alot more that we argued about but how ****ty. Maybe the fcuker should be tech support if hes gonna complain. Both Zoomer, Tim and dbtk2 which is one of the mechanics there told me i will be fine with the lengths i have but obviously not.

It seems very very weird that the lengths i have now are too long instead of a little short. U would think going to a thicker gasket would make the lengths be a little short.
 
One thing you need to look at is if the lifters are bleed down or pumped up. There is a spring inside all hydraulic roller lifters and there is also preload when you tighten the rocker bolt down. If the lifter is pumped up then the valves will slighly open and will adjust once the engine is running. With a new lifter this is very easy to work around as there is no oil in the lifter and by hand you can push on the pushrod against the spring and see this. The pushrod length is going to effect geometry and preload but going from a .052 head gasket to stock is not much change at all. When your start running the rocker arm bolt down you should freely do this while spinning the pushrod with your fingers and once it just starts to have resistance when all of the play is gone then you should have roughly 1/2 to 1-1/4 more turns on the rocker bolt from the point of zero lash or play until fully torqued. With the intake on this is going to be more frustrating as you cant see the tops of the lifters and watch the pushrod push against the spring but as I mentioned above-if the lifters are pumped up and filled with oil then they will likely not compress or collapse and you will see the valves open when you tighten the bolt. Did you check the amount of tightening turn left in the rocker arm bolt once the slack was removed from the pushrods? There is a lot of tolerence inside the lifters and you can be off well over 1/8" and it will still work, just not optimal. The idea is to get roughly .030" of preload on a hydraulic lifter and this is normally in the 1/2 to 1 full turn of the rocker bolt after the play is gone in the pushrod. If you have roller lifters then it is very easy to see where the roller tip is located on the valve and you can use this as a gauge when spinning the engine to see where the contact on the top of the valve is. With stock rocker arms it is very difficult to see this with your eyes and without marking compound but you want to keep the rocker tip in roughly the center 1/3 of the valve tip. If you go to Comp Cams website they have a lot of very detailed cam install and valvetrain geometry articles that will help you out and better explain what I am trying to get at here.

Here is a link that will explain this
Technical Specs & Information
 
im thinking its because the lifters are pumped up now.

i would, torque the rockers down, turn the motor over with out cranking, check things, fire it up. if there is a horrible miss (worse then just the cam) then the pushrods are truley to long and a valve is hanging open. if it purrs like a kitten, i wouldent worry about it, obvioulsly there the right size.
 
Trannyman95 said:
One thing you need to look at is if the lifters are bleed down or pumped up. There is a spring inside all hydraulic roller lifters and there is also preload when you tighten the rocker bolt down. If the lifter is pumped up then the valves will slighly open and will adjust once the engine is running. With a new lifter this is very easy to work around as there is no oil in the lifter and by hand you can push on the pushrod against the spring and see this. The pushrod length is going to effect geometry and preload but going from a .052 head gasket to stock is not much change at all. When your start running the rocker arm bolt down you should freely do this while spinning the pushrod with your fingers and once it just starts to have resistance when all of the play is gone then you should have roughly 1/2 to 1-1/4 more turns on the rocker bolt from the point of zero lash or play until fully torqued. With the intake on this is going to be more frustrating as you cant see the tops of the lifters and watch the pushrod push against the spring but as I mentioned above-if the lifters are pumped up and filled with oil then they will likely not compress or collapse and you will see the valves open when you tighten the bolt. Did you check the amount of tightening turn left in the rocker arm bolt once the slack was removed from the pushrods? There is a lot of tolerence inside the lifters and you can be off well over 1/8" and it will still work, just not optimal. The idea is to get roughly .030" of preload on a hydraulic lifter and this is normally in the 1/2 to 1 full turn of the rocker bolt after the play is gone in the pushrod. If you have roller lifters then it is very easy to see where the roller tip is located on the valve and you can use this as a gauge when spinning the engine to see where the contact on the top of the valve is. With stock rocker arms it is very difficult to see this with your eyes and without marking compound but you want to keep the rocker tip in roughly the center 1/3 of the valve tip. If you go to Comp Cams website they have a lot of very detailed cam install and valvetrain geometry articles that will help you out and better explain what I am trying to get at here.

Here is a link that will explain this
Technical Specs & Information
Click to expand...

Thanks trannyman. What u said is exactly what it is. The lifters are pumped up now and cant be pushed down like before when they werent pumped up. I have OE-R's in so i only get 1/8 to 3/4 turn after snug, correct? How exactly can i measure preload to make sure that is being set right as well? The lower intake manifold is off. luckily i kept it off to gasket match the intake runners.
 


blowfishRus6 said:
im thinking its because the lifters are pumped up now.

i would, torque the rockers down, turn the motor over with out cranking, check things, fire it up. if there is a horrible miss (worse then just the cam) then the pushrods are truley to long and a valve is hanging open. if it purrs like a kitten, i wouldent worry about it, obvioulsly there the right size.
Click to expand...

When i first started it up before having to pull the motor right back out for the leaks(which were coming from the ARP Studs) there was a ticking noise. using a stethascope to listen for internal noise, i stuck that down to the lim, front & rear headers, valve covers and couldnt hear the noise. It was a tick for sure and not knock and sped up with RPMs. I couldnt tell if that was a cause from an exhaust leak on the rear and front header(cylinder 1 and 2). Could an exhaust leak from the head to the header make a ticking noise?
 
an exhaust leak will cause a ticking noise. also my injectors tick, if i stick a screw drive up to them i can clearly hear it, dont know if yours do this. but i could also be the lifters, they say the comps are noisy.

but it kind of sounds like an exhaust leak.
 
i have though my headers were leaking where it meets the head and ive thought about running double gaskets but i dont know if that would work.
 
next time i get this back in i will put the stethascope up to the injectors and see if thats it. Before i started this build, i had stock 33# injectors with stock lifters and still had the noise. but didnt rise with rpm. wasnt loud loud but was noticable. forgot to mention i put it on the fuel logs and couldnt hear it through that either.

ur doubling gaskets idea isnt too bad of a thought. were u using the metal ones or the felpro ones? i wonder if the metal exhaust manifold gaskets make a better seal.. but i doubt it.
 
i have not tried the double gasket, it was a thought i had if i ever take the headers off. i have not seen a felpro exhaust gasket so i dont know.

as for the injectors, if its not in the logs then i dought its them. i can hear the tick all thru my fuel rail from the injectors. and yea mine really dont raise with rpm either.

kinda sounds like the exhaust.
 


o and im using the metal gaskets. stock ones that came on the car. maybe even just some new ones would help out. but they looked good when i did the headers.
 
THe ticking is probably from those OE-R Comp Lifters...they are loud and clattery as hell. I told you to get Ls7's.
 
bbptech said:
i know and the funny thing is i called turbo tim to tell him the ones i have now are too long and he started yelling at me telling me that pushrods are measured in so and so lengths and told me thats literally impossible and on and on. So i told him about awhile back u (as in tim) told me to get a pushrod length checker tool to get the right lengths and that i used that to get the lengths and the lengths i need now are shorter than even the stock pushrod. And he went on about how im making the company lose money by me sending him used parts back for new. Well what do u expect? for me to keep these pushrods that arent the right length now that i had to go back to stock head gaskets and only have no more than 15 minutes of idle time on them and then fork out another 100 or so bucks for another set of pushrods. Naw screw that.


And..


Oh wait... theres more. lol.


He said what do i gotta do to get this solved cause hes got so much tech support into this that he wants to be done with it. And that he has to answer over 100 emails a day and complained about how i email him with so many questions and problems im having with or about my build and that he has other things to focus on and such. theres alot alot more that we argued about but how ****ty. Maybe the fcuker should be tech support if hes gonna complain. Both Zoomer, Tim and dbtk2 which is one of the mechanics there told me i will be fine with the lengths i have but obviously not.

It seems very very weird that the lengths i have now are too long instead of a little short. U would think going to a thicker gasket would make the lengths be a little short.
Click to expand...

wow those guys are complete fvcks. the treated me like an idiot when i went up there. i rarely do business with them anymore, usually intense. the mechanic guy is pretty decent. turbo tim is a douche for sure. i havent had a problem with zoomer though.
 
bluegtp91 said:
THe ticking is probably from those OE-R Comp Lifters...they are loud and clattery as hell. I told you to get Ls7's.
Click to expand...

Well hopefully when it gets started a second time it doesnt do it. Ya i should have got the LS7's but if i set the preload right i shouldnt have a problem with them.
 


Hope you get it figured out man and for what its worth your Sig Should Say "Reptile Tune" vs Retile Tune. LOL.
 
rynoman03 said:
Hope you get it figured out man and for what its worth your Sig Should Say "Reptile Tune" vs Retile Tune. LOL.
Click to expand...


Haha. Didnt realize that it said Retile up until u said something. lol. Thanks. And ya hopefully everything gets figured out.
 
kfish said:
wow those guys are complete fvcks. the treated me like an idiot when i went up there. i rarely do business with them anymore, usually intense. the mechanic guy is pretty decent. turbo tim is a douche for sure. i havent had a problem with zoomer though.
Click to expand...

Ya, that they are. I wont do anymore business with them unless i have to. I wonder how intense will do with the new owner John Rucker? I might talk to Zooom about Turbo B!tch and how much of an ass he is but it might just be a waste.
 
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