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** UPDATE ** Using 97-03 Struts on an '04+

FastKatt

FastKatt

New member
I sent this message to there "support" email
I've edited it here to make sense (changed your site to this site, and so on...)
It made it easier to post my question here
So, has anyone done this, know about someone, help someone, or know enough to help me threw it?

--Message sent to WBodyStore, edited to make sense here--
I've been looking for replacement struts for my 2004 GTP Comp-G with about 80k miles.
Link to current Mods: ClubGP: Member List
Before last night I was at a loss, and about to order GM Replacements...
A friend of mine online, Bill Lemke, sent me a link to a site:
Control Arms (Pair)
I didn't know this was a possibility for my car.
I was trying to figure out if I could weld the end link supports to a strut without damaging it...

I've been looking around this site trying to figure out what parts I need and what parts I don't.

[*] I need struts, looking at the 2 KYB offerings that site has.
[*] I think I need springs, so planning on lowering the car a bit.
I have a trailer hitch I use to take gear to the track & pick-up things from the hardware store
I also use my car for work, so the trunk gets loaded with tools 3-5 days a week (full)
I'm married with children, my car is the grocery getter. (Wife Mustang doesn't do well in roominess)
[*] I'm unsure if I need, or can even use Shortened Dog bones, I have PaceSetter Headers.
[*] My car has a problem with a speed sensor, warning me to check multiple systems, making me feel I need to replace a hub or 2.
Systems include; Anti-lock, Variable-Assist Steering, Traction Control, Stability, & Brake
[*] I want to be happy with the end product, don't want a "pogo effect", but don't want to over-do-it.
[*] Since I tow, I want to make sure I take care of the rear end
[*] Since I goto the 1/4 mile track I want to be mindful of helping with my 60' times.

Here's where the questions comes in...
What parts do I need?
What parts give me other parts so I don't buy duplicates?
Are there parts I'll need to steal from my struts?
Are there parts I'll need to buy that they aren't offering?
What is the best way for me to decide on what route to go on each part of this replacement? (3 spring offerings & 2 strut offerings)
If I buy all the parts from this site, can they be set-up as "Quick Struts" so I can install myself then get my alignment?
How successful have '04+ guys been with this set-up?
--End--

So, any thought? My 1st thoughts were to weld a bracket to a set of struts to mount my end-links on.
Thanks for looking, and look forward to everyone's ideas!
 
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Re: Using 97-03 Struts on an '04+ by changing the Control Arms

I would check the hole position on a 97-03 model compared to the hole position of an 04+. if they have the ame mounting location then I dont see why a 97-03 front suspension wouldnt work on a 04+

the mounting brackets on the subframe have the same brackets as a 97-03. which means you would have to change out the sway bar end links to match the 97-03's.

I am surprised I dont see an afterarket for the 04+.........

The A-arms, spindles, struts, and sway bar end links..... thats off the top of my head. also if the strut mounts on a 97-03 have the same angle as an 04+...... I dont see why they wouldnt.

It is an interesting idea, that would give you pleanty of aftermarket.

anyone elses ideas? I have not done any majo suspension changes on an 04+
 
Re: Using 97-03 Struts on an '04+ by changing the Control Arms

Seems like I'm alone on this one...
Can't find anyone that's done the swap

Jacob, you get that done?
Got a T# for me?
Can ya' send me a PM please
Thanks
 
Re: Using 97-03 Struts on an '04+ by changing the Control Arms

Well the control arms should interchangeable with at least the 03 style (cause basically they used the 03 style to match up with the 04 style of GPs). The controls arms should have the correct connecting points. I would sincerely doubt WBody would sell something that is not truly compatiable between the two different styles.

As for the struts, I would say go with AGX style of struts. They are more expensive yes, no doubt, but they give you the flexibility to tighten up your suspension when at track and then losen it up when you leave. As for the Springs. The SSC Gen IIs are the only spring I would ride in for GP. They have a minimal drop, about 1 1/2"s max. So when you are hauling stuff you should not bottom out. I am not sure how heavy of a load you are hauling behind your GP, but obviously going to low will have adverse consequences when driving with your trailer. Thus also it is a good reason why to have the AGX's to adjust the amount of play your struts will have. And they have a life time no sag warranty as well. Which aid you when hauling your stuff around.

In regards to the antipogo question, you can get the ZZP antipogo washers, while they do not stop all pogo, it almost cuts it 2/3's down. So you dont feel like you are in a rocking chair or anything. Those are a must regardless.

In regards to the shortened dogbones, I know you mentioned you have pacesetter headers, personally for me, I would not bother with those. When I had my old 98GT with my KYB/SSC package, I felt the "vibration" at 60mph and it was only momentary at best. You never lose control or feel of your car. It is not that serious. When I got my Intense Poly mounts for my car on my GTX and I added my KYB AGX/SSC Package to that ride, I did NOT feel that vibration. The Polys took care of that for me. I will say this though, you will feel more wheel vibration at idle or a stop light/sign with the polymounts, but that is to be expected given the nature of what they do. But the response you gain from them is incredible. It was one of the best choices I have ever made putting on my car!! And you wont have to worry about that gapping issue with your pacesetters banging into your radiator fans :)

The speed sensor issue I can not truly comment on, as I have an 03 GP and it didnt have those sensors available. But it sounds like you might be in need of some new hubs/sensors to replace the current ones on your car. I am not professional on that issue, so someone with 04+ experience will have to correctly answer that question.

I hope that helps some?
 
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Re: Using 97-03 Struts on an '04+ by changing the Control Arms

Woot! Nice to have someone give a detailed reply to this, Thanks!
As far as Pogos, do I need all 4 or just the fronts?
Will at Overkill Motorsports told me he thinks I should go with the original drop from SSC so the assend of my car sits a bit higher, due to my issues with work and such. You said SSCs GenII, why do you say that?
My Sway-bar is .80"/20mm, You think I should get the GMPP bar? Both ZZP & WBS say the Comp-G has the larger bar, so I may have been raped on that one...
I have polys on my dogbones now, and a poly trans mount. What other polys should I be looking at getting?
 


Re: Using 97-03 Struts on an '04+ by changing the Control Arms

FastKatt said:
Woot! Nice to have someone give a detailed reply to this, Thanks!
As far as Pogos, do I need all 4 or just the fronts?
Will at Overkill Motorsports told me he thinks I should go with the original drop from SSC so the assend of my car sits a bit higher, due to my issues with work and such. You said SSCs GenII, why do you say that?
My Sway-bar is .80"/20mm, You think I should get the GMPP bar? Both ZZP & WBS say the Comp-G has the larger bar, so I may have been raped on that one...
I have polys on my dogbones now, and a poly trans mount. What other polys should I be looking at getting?
Click to expand...

You're welcome!

As for the anti pogo washers, you will want a set of FOUR. One for each strut. As for the springs, I sent Will an email about that very thing. I have the Gen II's and from what I read in a previous post of his, the Gen I's sat higher in the rear end. I had asked him about a swap or trade for my Gen II's rears for a set of rear Gen 1's. But I neveer heard back from him :( I haven't even put them on yet.

I was thinking about going with a new set of stock rear springs myself to give the car a bit more of an agressive forward tilt. NOTHING drastic mind you, but a little lift in the rear and a nice minimal dip in the front gives a nice appearance. That is why I have left my current setup the way it is. SSC's in the front and current stock springs in the rear. But those springs have 85k miles on them and they need replacing sooner than later.

In regards to the Gen II's I mentioned, they are the only ones I have seen for sale. I have not come across any Gen I style SSC springs. So that is why I spoke of them and not the Gen 1's.

I have never seen the Comp G Front sway bar to compare it to the GMPP style of sway bar. But here is a picture I took of my STOCK sway bar as compared to the GMPP sway bar. I think you will see the difference.

thicknessoldandnew.jpg


oldandnewswaybars.jpg


DSCF0088-1.jpg


As for other Polymounts, I would say go with the Engery Suspension mounts for the sway bar and the sway bar end links. Here is a photo or two of them....

DSCF0013-3.jpg


DSCF0014.jpg


DSCF0005-3.jpg


Moog also makes a set similar to the Energy Suspension ones, but I like the red as compared to the dull blue of the Moogs. The one thing I will probably wind up getting from Moog is the read Poly Endlinks from the rear strut to rear sway bar. I have yet to find a real part number for the rear sway bar mounts for Energy Suspension or Moog, but at least Moog has the endlinks, so that also provides more stability when driving.

I hope that helps ya. If you need anything or have anymore questions, do not hesitate to ask :)
 
Re: Using 97-03 Struts on an '04+ by changing the Control Arms

Some other items that may interest you. This sway bar seems pretty nice, a little pricey as compared to others, but online with SLP and RAT.

eBay Motors: 97-03 Pontiac Grand Prix Addco Front Anti Sway Bar GTP (item 300268606854 end time Oct-31-08 12:48:09 PDT)

And these rear trailing arms are something I am very seriously considering over the GMPP trailing arms.

eBay Motors: 97-05 Grand Prix Regal Monte Carlo Rear Trailing Arms (item 200266934031 end time Nov-22-08 08:31:04 PST)

You can find another brand, BMR I believe on PFYC's site for our GPs, and they actually cost more than these guys. And these, like the BMRs come with Poly gaskets to help firm up the handling too :)
 
Re: Using 97-03 Struts on an '04+ by changing the Control Arms

Those trailing arms are incredible!

The Sway-bar is the same specs as ZZPs/GMPP bar
The WBS bar says it's 30mm/1.18 but I think it's GMPP also...
WBSs come with the end links, ZZPs end links are an extra charge
 
Re: Using 97-03 Struts on an '04+ by changing the Control Arms

FastKatt said:
Those trailing arms are incredible!

The Sway-bar is the same specs as ZZPs/GMPP bar
The WBS bar says it's 30mm/1.18 but I think it's GMPP also...
WBSs come with the end links, ZZPs end links are an extra charge
Click to expand...

I can tell you that the ZZP and WBody's sway bars are GMPP. I know for sure WBody is, and most likely ZZP's are as well. Or they would be all over touting how much better their sway bars are as compared to GMPP and others.

You can also purchase the Kits or parts of the kit from your local Pontiac Dealer directly. GM Parts Direct use to sell the whole kit, but I just checked the link I had and it seems they no longer sell anything for the GPs :(

Personally for me, I would perfer to buy my own link Kit. That way I know I am getting a quality product without wondering what WBody will switch up in the process. Which has happened to me before in dealing with them.
 
Re: Using 97-03 Struts on an '04+ by changing the Control Arms

I'm getting my own end links so I know I get RED, is that a bad reason?
Just about have all the parts ordered now, waiting for a price on 2 and... well...
I got 1 major "hold up", and hope it corrects itself soon
 


Re: Using 97-03 Struts on an '04+ by changing the Control Arms

Last i dealt with wbody they screwed me over pretty bad they lost my stuff for almost 3 weeks turned out to be sitting in their local postoffice with a torn tag. Then when i got it headgaskets were bent superchargedgasket was torn and not even the right one. As for the 04 using 97-03 what i have read is exactly as you have already heard above you have to switchout the control arms and endlinks.
 
Re: Using 97-03 Struts on an '04+ by changing the Control Arms

Here's a few pix:


Shop took the pix, I would have tried harder ;)
 
Update!

Well, I got to drive it with the struts set on 1.
It was 100x better than the car had felt in over a year! :mrgreen:
There's some "noises", but I think it's just new stuff needing to settle into place, we'll see

Driving home on I90, 3am, Deer in the road, I chose to live & avoided the deer
After spinning 1.5x I came to a stop facing traffic on the guard wires in the center median.
Lucky there was only 1 van, 15-20 car lengths back... A-hole didn't even stop to see if I was okay...

Guessing with Thanksgiving next week, I'll be in a rental for 2 weeks :roll:
Steering wheel sits at 3 o'clock to drive straight,
Passenger wheel sits between 1/8th & 1/4 turn to the left when the drivers wheel is straight...
I didn't turn the steering wheel for 1st 2 pictures
After having the new suspension for 10hrs I get to look forward to explaining to the body-shop why they have to buy '03 parts for an '04 car...
Then I get to fight with the insurance company to not get sub-standard parts...

When I get the car back I'm setting the struts to 4!
Just-in-case I only get to drive it for an hour or 2 again!
 
Similar situation happened to me in my pickup. I had bent the tie rod, cracked the knuckle, and torn my a-arm (control arm) bushings to shreds. It was fixable though. :)
 
im sure those 10 hours were awesome, sorry about your issue... I hit my first deer a few weeks back... what a pain

Looks nice, I'm hoping to have my KYB AGX by February
 


I'm just glad I was able to not hit the deer...
With the old struts and what-not, I think I would have been much worse off!
If I hit the deer, I would most likely be de-mod'n the car right now
 
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