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twin intercooled

If don't plan on rivaling MattM, simple big ass A2A + e85 will do 99% of us just fine. I've hot lapped many times in a row at the track and not notice at all as times don't seem to drop at all.

When it comes these things, keeping it simple works best. Don't over complicate things. Just asking for trouble most times.

If plan on A2W, just run one big ass setup, big ice bucket setup, and be done. Ditch the crappy m90 IC. Its tiny ass compared to a true A2W intercooler.

BTW, fun fact. When I was doing my setup, I was wanting to twin charge. MattM and Zooomer both talked me out of it, as they said it tends to be a PITA to deal with, and that in the end
I'd go faster on just a single turbo. Basically back to the "keep it simple stupid" ... glad I did.

Btw, nice little pro/con I had seen in the past.. kinda goes with what people have told me in the past...

http://www.enginebasics.com/Advanced Engine Tuning/Water vs Air Intercooler.html
 


I think I understand, you use the heat exchanger for all the cooling, you then run coolent lines to the turbo intercooler, while the turbo is flowing air through the turbo intercooler and back into the intake.

is that about right?

does anyone make an intercooler like the one you use only designed to go inside a N/A upper intake manifold?
 
jdredd said:
If don't plan on rivaling MattM, simple big ass A2A + e85 will do 99% of us just fine. I've hot lapped many times in a row at the track and not notice at all as times don't seem to drop at all.

When it comes these things, keeping it simple works best. Don't over complicate things. Just asking for trouble most times.

If plan on A2W, just run one big ass setup, big ice bucket setup, and be done. Ditch the crappy m90 IC. Its tiny ass compared to a true A2W intercooler.

BTW, fun fact. When I was doing my setup, I was wanting to twin charge. MattM and Zooomer both talked me out of it, as they said it tends to be a PITA to deal with, and that in the end
I'd go faster on just a single turbo. Basically back to the "keep it simple stupid" ... glad I did.
Click to expand...

would you consider a single turbo with a single a2w heat exchanger and single intercooler to be reliable and effective?
 
SgtMarshal said:
would you consider a single turbo with a single a2w heat exchanger and single intercooler to be reliable and effective?
Click to expand...

Without doing any research, I'd say no.

Only for this fact.

Big A2A in front. Takes up a lot of room.

Big A2W, has to fit somewhere.

Heat Exchange for A2W has to fit up front in front of the A2A. Killing a good chunk of flow to the A2A.

Ice bucket setup for A2W needs to go somewhere too (if not doing ice, no reason to do A2W)

I look at it as, do one or the other. Either way, keep it as simple as possible to keep head aches down. Reason for TONS of 3800 turbo setups never get complete, run like crap, or demod quickly. Alot over complicate things
or go crazy on one thing, and ignore a whole other area (ala transmission) ...

If you plan on running 9s.. or 800whp... or whatever something radical.. Then keep it simple. Future self will thank past self.
 
I think I could put together a turbo kit with the hear exchanger I already have installed moderately easily. I would just need the water to air intercooler frozen boost sells and the other typical turbo parts
 
Listen to jredd. He is very experienced in this area. Simplicity is the key player here.
Furthermore, how much modification are you willing to do? To fit even a decent sized a2w turbo core, I had to cut the sh*t outta my inner fenderwell just to get it to fit. Hours of extra, unnecessary labor to make it all fit AND tig welding brackets on so I could mount it. Sell all your supercharged stuff, and put it toward a nice a2a setup and don't look back. The m90 case is a terrible turbo manifold too
 


Sc intercoolers are really restrictive and offer minimal cooling. It would cost you weight and probably subtract more power than it adds.
 
danomite02 said:
Listen to jredd. He is very experienced in this area. Simplicity is the key player here.
Furthermore, how much modification are you willing to do? To fit even a decent sized a2w turbo core, I had to cut the sh*t outta my inner fenderwell just to get it to fit. Hours of extra, unnecessary labor to make it all fit AND tig welding brackets on so I could mount it. Sell all your supercharged stuff, and put it toward a nice a2a setup and don't look back. The m90 case is a terrible turbo manifold too
Click to expand...

Ha.. Wouldn't say I am very experienced. I just do a lot of research, asking dumb questions, and checking into all corners before making my moves.

It is one of those things, of what has other successful builds done and what have the failed ones done and evaluate.

Being that its been 10+ years since people started to turbo these things, you can ask your self a few questions.

1) Its been talked about many times of twin intercooled for years. How many have done it? And if anyone, did it actually work worth a crap?

2) When is the last time you saw a twin intercooled, single power adder car at the track? ( not including water/meth injection )

3) Is it worth the time and money and fab work to take it on.

As mentioned, if you plan on making a track monster, large A2W with ice bucket setup is way to go. When I mean large, i mean like it sits where the
passenger seat would be. (Ala, Tim Kings old TT 3.8 firebird). Maximum cooling no doubt.

If going for a daily car with track visits here and there, just go with the biggest A2A IC you want to fit up in there and enjoy.
 
A/w is easily fitted to a wbody and a ice setup is not needed for it to out perform an air/air either. I have never used an ice setup and i have no doubts im running enough intercooling for my setup
 
darkhorizon said:
A/w is easily fitted to a wbody and a ice setup is not needed for it to out perform an air/air either. I have never used an ice setup and i have no doubts im running enough intercooling for my setup
Click to expand...

Needed... no.. but when you have the ability to, it doesn't hurt.

In a Fiero like you, you don't have many easy options to run A2A, so i can see why A2W was used. (ASSumming you are talking about the Fiero)

The wbody setups that i've seen use A2W seemed to work, but it never seemed to be super great either. Ones with under hood units.

Having a tiny guy shoved up in the engine bay, or up in the fender. To me (this is why i say im no expert) it would only
be best if you can run a huge ass A2W for maximum cooling, and ice setup for the track.

Intense blue car was A2W and went big.

F-body170_zpsb6fd3f37.jpg


Tim went big too on his setup.

PDRM0352_zpsb85bd73f.jpg


So i am just saying.. if your going for a track monster, go big on the the A2W if you are gonna use it other wise just go A2A and be done.

I figure for myself, my A2A setup with its current sized unit should be good for mid 9s before upping to the next size up.

If I wasn't a putz, I'd done the same. Big monster A2W sitting on the floorboard, but to lazy to have that much fab work done,
and doesn't fit my bill of trying to keep the car as stock looking as possible inside and out to the casual glancer. Plus ruins having
a passenger in the car :)

So comes down, what are your goals, what are you comfy with doing, and in the end just do what you feel is right
for your situation. Either way you go, someone will cry about it ;)
 


darkhorizon said:
The fact i can get a 1000hp+ intercooler setup for $150 and install it almost anywhere is the key advantage to the a/w.
Click to expand...

Got the heat exchanger to worry about mount too.. so two things you have to mount.

Not saying A/W is a bad.. i almost ran it.

But the simple A/A IC that i have that is also rated for 1000hp, installed easily, and I can hot lap at the track with it. Tho i am no where near 1000hp.

I just hate having a water pump in the mix.. Always had stupid m90 IC pumps dying. It dies. I can't race.

No ice bucket, water gets warm/hot, hard to cool back down. Its debatable how much of an issue that is, but why do I see people using them alot for the big dog cars running deep single digits?
Dunno, but there is something to it I assume?

Either way a person goes, there are pros and cons. And OP needs to address his goals to me, and which method will play out the best.

If A2W had zero cons.. A2A wouldn't exist. and same if A2A had zero cons.. :)
 
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