Spun rod bearing in my engine, Series III is cheaper than Series II, should I?

[Booba5185]

So after further research it appears that 2004 is not ALWAYS a aluminum pan, depending on when the engine was produced. I guess I'll just have to wait and find out. If it is a steel pan should I go ahead and replace the gasket?

 

[Scottydoggs]

yes, i would, you have the engine in your hands, do the rest like you want to as well. it cant hurt, and it will never be easier to change.

 

[Slick2500]

Yes, if its a steel pan replace the gasket wile its out, otherwise if it ever starts leaking you have to drop the subframe to do it.

 

[Booba5185]

S3's dont use oilpan gaskets if they are aluminium, either way new oil pan gaskets are usually never needed as they will still leak... rebuilding a stock gasket with RTV is usually the best choice.

I was curious about what he was talkin about here. I've read how hard the oil pan is and I want to make sure it won't leak once the engine is in. I'll go head and replace the gasket then, is that Felpro I listed good?

 

[Scottydoggs]

if you have a al pan on the new engine, there is no gasket, you use a rtv like sealer.

 

[darkhorizon]

Again, replacing the gasket is not going to help matters. The stamped steel oil pans were made by a 5th grader in canada, and the mating surface looks like a broken accordian.

clean the block/pan with brake cleaner, and apply a ton of RTV to the pan and the top of the gasket. A new gasket is not going to fix the broke ass oilpan design. The GM service bulletin says excatly this is how you fix a leaky oil pan gasket.

 

[Booba5185]

I pulled the engine today, I got a lot done in about 6 hours today, but everything went very smoothly. Pics.About halfway done:

Time to get under it:

About half way done bench:

I think something was leaking...

It's out, thats the balancer shaft in the middle or the lifter valley:

I finally found what killed the engine. This sludge caused a clog before oil went into the filter, and starved the engine for oil, then spun a bearing since everything was relatively dry:

Under side of valve covers, rear was leaking really bad:

Passenger side rockers:

Driver side rockers:

Blurry, but where I left off. I pulled the 02 Sensor (2 weeks old), rear engine cover\RMS, water pump(looks new, I'll be reusing it), cam sensor, EGR tubes\mount, rockers, push-rods, and lifters (which were really stuck!). Basically stripped everything but the harmonic balancer, timing cover, and chain.

Bench:

I'll rent the puller on Monday and finish the tear down. I hope to get the new engine next week.

 

[Booba5185]

I just got off the phone with the junkyard, just to double check they still have it. I had him check for a aluminum pan, he said it was steel. I then had him check for the throttle body, to see if it has 4 bolts instead of 3 holding it on, it has 4. This leads me to believe it's a Series III(Gen V M90) with a steel pan right?

 

[TLSheff]

Maybe he doesn't know the difference between the pans and thinks its steel.

You never can tell with some yards. I was looking for a replacement motor when mine spun a bearing, drove 100 miles to pick up a low mileage L67 out of a bonnie. Listed as a series 2 L67, but when they pulled it out to load it up, I went ballistic because it was a series 1 l67 with a m62 supercharger. They guys tried to tell me it was all the same motor, I was like then why is the blower different? I started listing the differences and he told me to leave. I stopped 4 people on my way out, told them to go elsewhere that the idiots there don't know what they're doing.

Just go look at it for yourself, or have them email you pictures of the motor as it sits.

 

[Booba5185]

I'm definitely going to look it over real well to make sure it is what I'm looking for, but I'm also going to have money in hand to buy it if I like it (2 hour drive). From what I've seen, the easiest way to tell the differences quickly is the 4-bolt throttle body with no throttle cable, and the aluminum oil pan. They share the same timing cover, right? I don't want to use the timing cover from my current engine on my new engine, an old water pump's bad bearings caused the impeller to dig into the metal a bit.

 

[Scottydoggs]

call up and ask if the oil pan drain bolt is on the bottom of the pan, or the side, al pan is on the bottom.

same for the sc, ask if theres a bolt hole in the top middle for the fuel line to be bolted down? gen 3 has this hole, gen 5 does not.

 

[matt5112]

early SIII could have steel pans, just as they could have the SII rods.

 

[TLSheff]

Chargers are the biggest difference besides the lowers and the pans...

***VVVVVVVV***
Learn something new everyday. If it has a steel pan but IS a L32 its out of an 04 model. All 2004 GPs using the L32 have a steel pan from the 97-03.
L32 / 3800 Series III SC -- SECRETS EXPOSED! - Pennock's Fiero Forum

^ Says so here, so I checked on my catalog at work and sure enough, its the same number for all 97-03s and the same crosses into 04, 05 starts the aluminum pan for the L32/L26s

 

[Booba5185]

That explains it then, this is out of an 04. Looks like I'll still have the upgraded rods and supercharger though. Looks like there's plenty of signs\land mark on the engine to tell me if it's a SII or SIII. Thanks again.

 

[Booba5185]

New engine is here! I got a great deal IMO. Everything you see on the engine here, and all they got in a core was the heads and short block. This is basically ready to drop in, but I'm gonna clean it up first. I pulled the oil cap and theses valves are CLEAN! I won't take much to make this beauty look good!

cleaning and disassembly starts tomorrow!

 

[Scottydoggs]

nice find. those are some clean looking rockers. that seems to look like a l32 as well. how many miles it got?

 

[Booba5185]

It's an l32, the booster hose told me so, lol. JY said it's got 155k on it, but who knows. It appears to have metal LIM gaskets already (did I read somewhere that 04+ has metal factory? I think so), so I bet I could bolt an alternator and power steering to it and drop it in. I'm not going to though, I want to have a good look at the inside of her before I'm happy. Looks could be deceiving.

 

[Scottydoggs]

the newer l32 did get the metal gaskets. you could pass on changing them really. change em all if you want tho.

you need to do some fuel line work and evap, TB adapter, and pcv work as well. swap the alt and bracket.

to make the pcv work right. http://www.grandprixforums.net/how-get-pcv-work-instead-valve-cover-breather-44478.html being you need to use your TB you kinda have to do this.

 

[Booba5185]

THANK YOU for that, I was going off of this:

You would need a throttle body adapter ($100) and that's all, as long as the new motor has the SC on it. And if it does..you are ahead of the game from the SC side.

Then swap your alt, ac bracket, map sensors and TB etc on .. you are good to go. Oh..and use the S3 evap. piece of cake.

I had no idea I had to modify the TB, I asked about the PCV, but never got a straight answer on it. Now I have my answer and have a general idea what to do...drill\tap TB, run hose from nipple on S\C to drilled\tapped hole, right?

 

[Booba5185]

So get this, block is cast saying 3800 Series II, has a stamped pan, had plastic intake gaskets, but has the newer (crappier) timing cover. I bet when I drop the pan I won't find the L32 connecting rods.