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Spring dimension anyone?

Probably gonna be fairly low until the snow flys around here. I was think of "stacking" springs to make a slightly progressive setup. I dont mind being a little stiffer anyways, so I will probably start with tour recommendations.
 


i just checked the ZZP site and i am spot on. they are using 350# front and 275# rear.

would adding a smaller, obviously much lower rate, helper spring into the mix help with the progressiveness for the ride quality? i dont know much about helper springs besides knowing what they look like, ha.
 
the trick is to put a short stiffer top spring on. The formula to figure this out where the lower rate will start is (rate a X rate B)/(rate a + rate b).

so for example, put a 4" long 600# on top of a 8"long 400# spring will start the rate out at 240#, progressive to 400#. Off-roaders have been doing this for years, and lately it is the big thing for dirt late models and road racing. Still give you a little body roll initially, but stiffens up when you really throw it in the corners. The little flat helper springs are only used to keep the spring centered on the shock when the springs are unloaded, like when you are up on the jack. They dont effect the way the suspension works at all.
 
ah, that is kind of what i was assuming after reading a few descriptions of them.

so given you want a 10" long spring total, how do you determine which length and rates you want for the stacked springs? is that something you base off of what you want to start the spring rate as and progress to the stiffer rate? this is interesting, might have to give this some thought.

my car right now (06 subaru) im running 7k springs on front and 5k on the rear. they are junk springs and the rate is way too low. i rub on the insides of my fenders fairly often until i recently raised the car up another 1/4" and took out the preload most of the way because it was riding like a tonka truck. i would love to get a higher spring rate so i could go lower without rubbing, but i also want to avoid a really crappy ride. i may have to have a few conversations with you outside of this thread.

ill leave this be for now. continue on with the subject.
 
ok, when you are ready for the spring change, get back at me and will will get you going, but generally, you want a shorter spring on top, so it will progress faster on the street, but you almost always have to go stiffer to nake up for the lighter starting rate
 


Oh that was supposed to be this past spring... :D

AFAIK, no one else produces a proper one. Intense uses stockers with some terrible contraption on them. Would recommend no one to buy them.
 
UPDATE: I got the new bilsteins and sleeve kit. Decided that the Bilsteins were much too nice to cut up, and besides, the Bilstein HD's only travel about 4.5" before they hit the internal bump stop. Based on that, I cut the sleeves down to 4.5", instead of 7", and installed them onto the strut body, using the stock spring perch as the resting point for the bottoms of the sleeves. Then all I needed was to find the appropriate rate and length spring, allowing enough travel so that it wouldn't coil bind before the struts bottom out. Started out with a 8" 375#, but it is a little too stiff and will only allow about a 1/2" drop. Going to put in a 7"300# spring this weekend and see how it acts. For the Upper mount, I used a Genesis Technologies helper spring guide on top of the stock mount, fits great, and was cheaper and easier then making new mounts. Going to go over it all this weekend and make some "final touches" when I put the 7"300# springs in. It should allow for about 2"-2.5" of drop if I so choose to go that low. It will also allow to put stock style springs if I choose to go that route at a later time. :th_king-evil: As a sidenote, if anyone else tryies to go this route, be very careful with the brand of spring you choose to use. I know our Hyperco springs have enough travel in the shorter springs, and will not lose free length if they are pounded to coil bind. Many other companies will either lose free length when coil bound, or will not have enough travel and will coil bind before the struts bottom out.
 


yay more people going with coilovers. cant wait to try some things out with the wbody suspension in the future.
 
Really, I was just shocked that our cars had that little suspension travel, being as heavy as they are with as light a spring as they put on them. The 375 on the rear has woke up the handling, I just cant go low enough with it and it is a little noisy on the large bumps. I do like the fact that when I hit the larger bumps it doesn't feel like the ass end is trying to jump sideways. I am going to try to put a no-rate helper spring in place too, to reduce the noise a little, since there is about 1/4" of play when you jack it up. Funny thing is that right after we got the rears all set up, when we pulled out of the driveway for a little test drive, the front sway bar decided to snap, so I got a new Dorman front bar too.
 


Sorry guys, just been crazy busy, with hunting season, and work and all that hubbub. Right now I am using the Hyperco 187b0300 main coil springs, with our hyperco cs600 helper spring to take up the slack for the shorter spring setup. These are on Bilstein hd's part#f4-ve3-f338-h0(http://www.allshocks.com/bilstein/html/show_shocks.asp?make='PONTIAC'&model='Grand Prix/Grand Prix GXP'&year='1998'). I am using 4 total Genesis technologies helper spring guides part #gc1160(found at Genesis Technologies Hyperco Helper Spring Guides ) for mounting the helper springs and upper strut mounts. On the bottom end, I am using a a1racing.com sleeve kit(A1-12440). I chucked the top spring mount from the a-1 kit in favor of the gc1160, since using it will only allow me to lower the about a half inch. So far, I love the ride and the handling this kit has given me. If I adjust the coilover nut all the way down, I can drop the car about 1.5 inches with this setup. The balance is actually pretty good, and all I have done on the front so far is the dorman sway bar, but that stiffened up the front a lot. I am not really done experimenting yet, as I can try different spring rates and lengths still. So to sum it up, put the coilover sleeve kit on the body of the strut, install the 187b0300, then one of the gc1160s, then the helper spring, then the other gc1160, then the upper strut mount. You can do without the helper spring if you so choose, but there will be "slack" between the spring and strut every time you jack up the car, and you will have to be careful to realign the assembly every time you drop it off the jack. You could also lower the car probably about another 1/2" by losing the helper spring. So far I am happy with it, but over the winter I plan on garaging the car, and doing top swap and whatnot, since I picked up a gtp with a shot trans for $300 last week.
 
Looking into those parts,my only concern is using the helper spring guide to mate to the strut mounts.

They are thin where the pressure meets the strut mount unless you had them machined (or took them to a grinding wheel)

Did you do all around or just the front?

I ask because I'd like to say within an inch of stock ride height all said and done.
 
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