• The site migration is complete! Hopefully everything transferred properly from the multiple decades old software we were using before. If you notice any issues please let me know, thanks! Also, I'm still working on things like chatbox, etc so hopefully those will be working in the next week or two.

So I got my Flowmasters...



01GTP said:
You cant back up your statement, so you go from hp numbers to just wanting better drive ability.
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Ok-I give up-you are right! Feel better now? It definitely has more HP but you are correct, I have no way of knowing how much unless you go the dyno route which I certainly would not do with these cars. MINE IS A STREET DRIVEN COMMUTER CAR, NOT A RACE CAR! I really don't care about the dyno numbers. As most of you know, part of the fun of tinkering with cars is just that, fun. I'm just tweaking it until it goes to my son when he drives-that's it. First car for him.

I considered my grand prix a good car, nice styling, good handling, decent power (3.8 NA and 3.1's), and capable of very good gas mileage.

Differing opinions are OK too! I just object to the name calling since it really adds nothing to the conversation!
 
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jbamonte said:
Just for the record, I am not racing my GP, just trying to increase driveability! If I want to go racing on the street, which I don't, I would be drving a G8, GTO, G35 sedan or coupe, or IS350, and would definitely not even bother with a 97-03 GP of any type. Those Japanese cars and many others, all have over 300+HP stock. It's ok do have a differing opinion, isn't it? Or maybe, I would be wrong about that here!
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What Japanese car you listed delivers over 300 horsepower there? They are all well below 300 horse after drivetrain loss...and if you really want to get technical, the 3.5 VQ35DE didn't have over 300 horse...until they came out with the 3.7 VQ37DE with the twin intake design...netted 306 to the crank...which still is well under 300 to the tire...so...I'm still waiting for dyno numbers...which after all of this BS'ing you are still avoiding...I'd told you I'd shut up if you gave me logical, photo-evidence of you gaining around 15 horsepower from a catback on a 3.1. And, since you can't...I'll never see those dyno numbers...how sad:th_shakinghead2:
 
bluegtp91 said:
What Japanese car you listed delivers over 300 horsepower there? They are all well below 300 horse after drivetrain loss...and if you really want to get technical, the 3.5 VQ35DE didn't have over 300 horse...until they came out with the 3.7 VQ37DE with the twin intake design...netted 306 to the crank...which still is well under 300 to the tire...so...I'm still waiting for dyno numbers...which after all of this BS'ing you are still avoiding...I'd told you I'd shut up if you gave me logical, photo-evidence of you gaining around 15 horsepower from a catback on a 3.1. And, since you can't...I'll never see those dyno numbers...how sad:th_shakinghead2:
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Are you dense? Why would anyone dyno a cat back system on a commuter car? Do you or do you not have personal experience going from a single GP exhaust to a cat back duals on a 3.1? If you don't, at this point your comments are just heresay!

Please stop with all the chatter about crank versus advertised HP. Every car I mentioned has over 300 advertised SAE NET HP. Every car on the road has less HP at the wheels versus advertised HP due to frictional losses in the drivetrain including the beloved SC GP-240 HP, 205 HP 3.8 NA, and 175 HP 3.1L. You state that the 3.1 actually has 140 HP at the rear wheels versus its advertised 175 HP. Using your logic than the SC has 215HP at the wheels and the 3.8NA has 170 HP. Correct? Believe me, I just drove a friend's 2009 IS 350 with 306 advertised horsepower, not wheel HP, and with a documented 0-60 time of 5.7 seconds, it will whip any GP from our generation, no problem totally stock.
 
jbamonte said:
Are you dense? Why would anyone dyno a cat back system on a commuter car? Do you or do you not have personal experience going from a single GP exhaust to a cat back duals on a 3.1? If you don't, at this point your comments are just heresay!

Please stop with all the chatter about crank versus advertised HP. Every car I mentioned has over 300 advertised SAE NET HP. Every car on the road has less HP at the wheels versus advertised HP due to frictional losses in the drivetrain including the beloved SC GP-240 HP, 205 HP 3.8 NA, and 175 HP 3.1L. You state that the 3.1 actually has 140 HP at the rear wheels versus its advertised 175 HP. Using your logic than the SC has 215HP at the wheels and the 3.8NA has 170 HP. Correct? Believe me, I just drove a friend's 2009 IS 350 with 306 advertised horsepower, not wheel HP, and with a documented 0-60 time of 5.7 seconds, it will whip any GP from our generation, no problem totally stock.
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It was a guestimate.

And 5 second 0-60 times are still slow. :th_thumbsup-wink:

Lets talk when you find a car as cheap as ours with a low 4 second time.:th_jester:
 
Matt,

My point is that quoting SAE NET versus real wheel horsepower is true for any car on the road including all the GP's. The point of having SAE NET ratings, advertised horsepower, is to level the playing field for the consumer when looking at power quotes for a given automobile. Pointing out that the 3.1 advertised 175 HP is only 140 HP at the wheels applies to the 3.8's as well-using my "friends" logic is like saying that a 3.8NA or 3.8SC don't really have 205 and 240HP but really have only 170 and 215 respectively, which although true applies to all cars across the board.

I don't know about you but any car in the 5 sec range is fast to 60 MPH. I believe that a stock GP 3.8 NA 0-60 is around 8 sec's and a SC GP is in the 7's-pretty slow even in 2003 which is why I am a little shocked about the infactuation about the NA 3.8's power versus the 3.1, there both pretty slow, but really good all around cars. Anybody know the exact numbers?
 


jbamonte said:
"Converting a car to dual exhaust with a single outlet downpipe is just stupid anyways...LOL if you think you get more power with a "Y" pipe and two mufflers when it is all still coming from the same SINGLE OUTLET DOWNPIPE"

I hate to tell you, chief, but you are wrong on this one! The limiting factor on any exhaust is the down pipe diameter, yes, but if the the system beyond that single down pipe has any restriction in it like a single restrictive muffler coupled with a single pipe after the cat, anything that increases the flow after the downpipe and reduces the restiction will help with power assuming that the downpipe diameter is not maximizing the flow for a given engine. On the other hand, if the car originally has a single downpipe with appropriate sized y pipe and mufflers, then switching to a larger more free flowing cat back system will have a minimal effect on the engines output, aka a GT/GTP. Conversely, taking a single downpipe of appropriate diameter or a front y pipe and running the exhaust through a single pipe of a larger enough diameter will produce power equivalent to a true dual exhaust. Physics here, no heresay! Sorry to disappoint!
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:th_laugh-lol2: :th_laugh-lol2: :th_laugh-lol2: :th_laugh-lol2: :th_laugh-lol2: :th_laugh-lol2:

Man I cant help but join in on the stupidity posting. First off, its TOTALLY POINTLESS putting dual exhaust on a 3.1L Engine (I am ASSuming he has a 3.1L engine). What? You expect to make 120hp after that awesome upgrade? Paaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalease! Do yourself a favor and stop debating something that is absolutely absurd! Its like putting racing stickers on a turd and thinking that turd will turn into Corvette. LAUGHABLE!

I know I am suppose to be mindful of others, but stuff like this has be exploited and pointed out. DON'T DO THIS AT HOME!!! For the money you are WASTING on a 3.1L SE motor, you might as well save the money instead of spending it on that and get a GT or GTP and then DO IT!

But if you insist on thinking somehow this will change your 3.1L into a 3.8 NA or GTP powered motor...............Goooooooooooooooooood luck to ya!

I guess you dont understand one thing here. The people here bashing the idea actually DO KNOW what they are talking about! They are simply trying to save the OP from making a mistake like he already has, with getting good mufflers on a crappy engine. And then he gets his feelings hurt when people cant understand he thinks that RASPY is good? COME ON!

If you want to hold onto your belief that somehow adding a kickarse catback system and a larger diameter DP is gonna help a 3.1L engine? You maybe want to go over to the Honda/aka Ricer boards and feel more at home with them. These are people speaking from experience and I TOO can speak of this topic seeing I have gone through many muffler and catback configurations on my old GT and my current GTX. So before you bash them for knowing their facts, maybe you should take that into consideration.

On my old GP GT, I had Magnaflows on it and the droan was horrid. When I got my GTX it had had the SLP catback system on it without a resonator, and it was droany as hell. I then got the Borla catback system with is bazooka style resonator on it and it was perfect.

:th_shakinghead2:

***Puts his Admin cap back on***

With that being said. The bottomline is he wasting money trying to make a 3.1L engine sound better with after market mufflers or catback setup. Plain and simple. But if you wish to debate this topic further, it will only lead to people's feelings being hurt cause its a mute point.

So I will ask from this point on keep the posts civil and on topic.


Thank you for your time and attention :)
 
jbamonte said:
Are you dense? Please stop with all the chatter about crank versus advertised HP. You state that the 3.1 actually has 140 HP at the rear wheels versus its advertised 175 HP
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Am I DENSE? :th_laugh-lol2: I'm not saying anything more...just pointing this out...if this guy knows so much...his 3.1 V6 SE is RWD...

Huh...never knew.
 


jbamonte said:
From the thirdgeneration forum:

"Re: 91 firebird 3.1L V6....more hp and acceleration?

If your not mechanically skilled, you can upgrade the exhaust(headers, catback exhaust, and hi flow cats)
Also upgrade your air intake as well as try and get rid of all the smog crap(find yourself a local inspector so you'll pass
nod.gif
)"

Would you like to eat crow, now or later?
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Ummm I got nothing out of this post... Good job quoting useless info again there slick!
 


This has to be the most retarded person on here since the guy that thought the government was gonna take and crush our cars for running catless downpipes :p
 
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