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Significant gains from headers over power log?

Well why not at that point just get rid of the u-bend and keep the stock downpipe? after the u-bend the front mani is the biggest restriction.
 


addzradd said:
Well why not at that point just get rid of the u-bend and keep the stock downpipe? after the u-bend the front mani is the biggest restriction.
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I was disgusted the first time I took my front manifold off and looked inside the primaries and comPared it with the power log primaries. I was like how the eff was this car breathing
 
Bio248 said:
i would literally LOVE to hear your reasoning behind this. you know, based on your wealth of experience with the platform.
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Unnecessary "boost stacking"

I suppose with an intercooler and rockers itd be fine to run a 3.3, or 3.4 -- But that's as far as a Plog/DP should be taken.

Unless you're utilizing the fuel dump mod as well that is ;)
 
Local guy ran a 3.0 with a fullsize intercooler and a downpipe. Car ran great. Now what? It must have been a freak, right?

And please for the last time, do not say boost stacking. It's a horrendous term for idiots that don't know how a motor works.
 
LOL Chris.

Boost stacking is the dumbest thing ever to come across the GP community.

There is no such thing as it in these cars...because they have to "stack boost" to make power...aka, ROOTS blower.

If you're getting too much boost, then there needs to be more flow. If you've got ported heads...if you've got headers...and you're knocking on "X" pulley...then you just need to pulley up, plain and simple. You can't fix stupid with a tune...unless you dumb it down to a 14* WOT timing map like I've seen with mid 10's AFR.
 
the fact of the matter is that if youre able to pull 10whp out of headers versus a downpipe, regardless of the setup...then why do i care to install some POS headers that are just going to be a pain in the ass when a downpipe takes a half hour to install and i can tuck it up into the tunnel of the car perfectly?

if one...ONE company made a set of legit headers with a little bit of R&D that had a perfect fitment, wouldnt leak no matter how retarded you installed them, and had a legitimate downpipe i would be ALL OVER THAT ****. seriously, even the ZZP and wbody headers have issues and those are supposed to be 'the best'. TOGs can suck my wang, had a set and i hated them.

header qualities i want:
- 2 piece design
- v-band flanges on the crossover and downpipe
- no one needs giant primaries. that **** is retarded. that is just reducing exhaust velocity and ruining a possibly 'nice' set of headers.
- primaries that line up correctly and nice flanges that won't warp
- either make sure the trans dip stick isnt in the way, or provide a new dip stick (but this one is super easy to solve with a bendy dip stick anyway)

other than that, i dont care what they are made of or how much they cost (within reason). i paid close to $750 for my S&S. they were ceramic coated and work FLAWLESSLY. i touched nothing to accomodate the headers themselves. now, if they made them slightly bigger they would have been the best set of headers 150% hands down.

so back to my point: why the hell am i going to buy headers when none of the sets being sold are worth the money you spend on them? **** that noise.
 


Probably because for $200 you can pick up 20-25 hp over a stock manifold with a pulley drop and tuning, and 10-15 over a plog with the same mods. Also mine never leaked just a few v-bands and a smearing of copper RTV, and the downpipe included took all of an hour and $30 for a new flex to make perfect, the trans dipstick took 10 minutes to pull out, slot the tab and remount in a better position.

You want an equal length, longtube set of headers? go get a RWD car with the engine pointed the right way and stop whining on here, or go make your own.
 
no, i never said equal length longtubes. i know that isnt possible for us and i dont care to have them. i have a few guys i am going to poke about making a set when the time comes because of this dilemma.

im just reiterating the fact that i dont think you can pick up 20whp from a downpipe to headers change, regardless of the motor setup.
 
The guy that did the first lower solid mount instead of dog bones did exhale length headers. They looked super sexy
 
I'd say 20hp at the crank would be had about 15 at the wheels, since downpipe to headers would allow alot more timing in the tune.
 
I am with Bio on this one...not really happy with any of the headers out there because of leaking and fit issues...yes its easy to pay for better clamps and weld in a new flex...but then you have to deal with the o2 issue on SD headers...that is the original reason I bought the DP is because there is no leak issues and they fit like the stock one does....the main reason I bumped this thread was because I already have the DP and don't really feel like going through the hassle of selling it then buying headers...so if don't loose that much WHP from just adding a Plog to my current setup I am ok with that...I know everyone says don't do it but I deff am going to try and run a cam with a Plog Dp combo
 


Hey that's cool it's your car but I don't know why if you went through something as complicated as a cam install you wouldn't just mod a set of headers up quick and be able to run alot more timing with the increase in flow.
 
Someone show me some dyno charts that show how much more whp and timing you can add with SD headers over a Plog+Dp...I am not diagreeing that headers flow more I just want to know what the actual WHP stats are versus my butt dyno said I have alot more...I want to do a cam someday but for right know I would just pulley down if I can get away with it...im not coming up with excuses just stating facts
 
thats the WHOLE reason y i started this thread. the significant gains. everyone is saying flow. ok yeah sure we all know that but what does that do for hp? and the answer to that is nothing unless you get WAY up there in modding. then maybe you get a little. but theres not a 20 hp difference. and on top of that you have to fight with so much to make it fit. if i can spend 100 bucks here for a dp and 100 bucks here for a plog id rather do that then paying an x amount for headers.

and back to the flow. if it was really neccesary to have headers because it reduced a shi!t load of KR then obviously i wouldnt even consider the plog/dp. but it doesnt even make a huge difference there. so to me in my certain situation all i will need is a plog and dp and i will be good to go with my pulley drop. thanks again guys for all the replies
 


addzradd said:
Hey that's cool it's your car but I don't know why if you went through something as complicated as a cam install you wouldn't just mod a set of headers up quick and be able to run alot more timing with the increase in flow.
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Because it isn't just about the timing...just because you increase flow doesn't mean the car was making 2-3* less than stock timing and knocking from the factory. All headers have done on some cars is put them back to factory tip top shape, and then...you're running a stock pulley on a car that makes 5-7psi with manifolds and a poo-poo DP setup...and expect what...3-5psi after the headers? Then you need to pulley down to compensate the loss of boost from the flow to get back to square one...and then wheeee, KR on a smaller pulley.

It's a fun cycle, isn't it?
 
bluegtp91 said:
Because it isn't just about the timing...just because you increase flow doesn't mean the car was making 2-3* less than stock timing and knocking from the factory. All headers have done on some cars is put them back to factory tip top shape, and then...you're running a stock pulley on a car that makes 5-7psi with manifolds and a poo-poo DP setup...and expect what...3-5psi after the headers? Then you need to pulley down to compensate the loss of boost from the flow to get back to square one...and then wheeee, KR on a smaller pulley.

It's a fun cycle, isn't it?
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Thats what I don't want to do...I have chased my tail on other cars with mods and I don't want to do that with this
 
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