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PCV problems-Related to I/C

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TDCRacing

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Look this is the last im gunna try to post up about this....I've gathered a cupple people up to ask about this problem so hopefully i can get some insight to this.I belive this could be the cause of my surging probelms since my plugs are black as hell...If not it needs to be fixed anyway.



I'll list all the info and details i know...some may seem off topic to some but some may be able to figure out the problem by having these extra details.here goes nothing...





Installed ZZP stage 2 I/C. Used garlocks. Used front breather instead of Machined intake.Everything was fine from what I can remember. No smoke plugs looked good. When I did my tranny and cam swap I found this-



HPIM0395.jpg




HPIM0394.jpg





So I was like ok....Garlocks are the problem. Figured that oil from the pcv passages caused ''normal'' oil soak in the gaskets. And changed to Gm gaskets and used RTV during the installation....After the swap everything seemed good. Car ran fine no smoke from the exhaust.



All of a sudden one day i noticed while idling that light smoke was comming from the exhaust....I was like great...I changed the valve seals so i know that wasent the problem. Plugs are a brownish burnt color due to oil getting into the cylinders. Egine started surging and figured i had a S/C or I/C gasket leak....replaced with GM paper gaskets again and noticed the lim was Slightly coated with oil. No puddles or anything but more than is suppose to be there...wich is none.


I have come to the conclusion that something is wrong with the pcv system or something is not right with it becuase of the intercooler.I dont know anything about the pcv systems on this car nor do i understand how it works,where all the passages are or where they lead to. It almost seems as if the crankcase can not breath and because it is preasurized it is forcing oil past the gaskets into the lim. I was thinking of doing my own Machined lim but heard dave say it's a waste of time (going to read more on that thread in a sec). So I want to know why in the hell this is happening.



THANK YOU FOR ANY HELP!!!!!
 


Well, like you, at first I was going to blame the Garlocks. Then I noticed you don't have a machined LIM.

You don't need to machine it but you do ned to oblong the PCV hole to extend it to where the hole is in the IC core. Not a big deal at all. All you do is kind of make a channel from the hole in the LIM and stop it where the hole is in teh core. I guess you could stick a Sharpie through the hole in the core so you know where to stop.

Dremil is your friend here.
 
Yeah but since he's already running a breather and a LIM without the channel anyways couldn't he just plug the hole and continue running it?
 
So thats for sure the problem? I can fix that no problem but just dont want to if it wont cure the problem. Thanks agin for your input. Now another question is- On zzp's home page it says if you run a breather you don't need to modify the LIM in any way. I have a breather in the front valve cover. So why am i needing to modify the LIM.
 
Oil still comes through there though if you don't do one of those. Either way will fix it.

While you're in there, plug the 2 coolant holes. If you cant tap and plug them just sand down a couple dimes and RTV them in there. The dime's diameter is just a tad too big to fit without sanding.
 


Garlocs need sealant or they will leak unquestionably and Zooomer told me a few years back to use a thin coat of GM assembly adhesive, basically the gray rtv in a white tube you get from the dealer that is referred to as the "3100" intake sealant. I lay a thin bead down then go over it with my finger so its not enough to build up but is enough to create a nice seal. On the Gen 3 housings you can often get away with the GM gaskets but still need sealant in the PCV areas. I have not had any trouble with the Garlocs since he told me to use the sealant and they are required for SS and Gen V IC installs as the gasket is stamped out with more area than the Gen 3 OE gaskets are. How did the gasket between the IC core and the lower intake look? Any pics of that one? Do you still have the surging problem and spark plugs getting dirty from oil? Does every spark plug looks the same? A piston with a chipped top ring land doesnt seal as well and will allow more blowby into the crankcase and make for more oil vapors to get pulled in through the pcv system. Running a breather is definately giving you plenty of flow. It also seems that cammed cars have a little more oil in this area. I would say if your car is running fine now with it re-sealed and different gasket and you arent seeing the brownish color on the plugs from oil burning then you are fine. Pulling a stock blower off of a stock engine will show oil in the same exact area of the gasket as yours and more so if the mileage is getting up there on the engine.

ONE SIDE NOTE TO MAKE SURE OF!!!!!

IF you have taken the blower housing completely apart OR swapped with a different housing such as a ported one the black plastic baffle under the pcv valve and oring MUST be there!
 
I was watching a long time GM mechanic (still is their Vette guy) doing an install on a GTP. The gasket looked like yours and when asking about the condition, he said, that's normal.

The breather allows unmetered air in. You have to tune for that...apparently.

Do you have a picture of the plugs for those smarter than I to look at?
 
IndeedSS said:
Do you have a picture of the plugs for those smarter than I to look at?
Click to expand...

Yes I have some pictures. These were taken just a second ago and Are plugs 1,3,5. Yesterday when i pulled the #5 plug it was a lot blacker than this. Burnt black not oilly. Maybe because i was idleing more before I cut the car off or something, wich caused more build up? Notice the burnt oil on in pic # 2. Notice the oil seepage that is on the napkin that came from the plug threads.



HPIM0557.jpg


HPIM0556.jpg


HPIM0555.jpg


HPIM0551.jpg
 
Trannyman95 said:
How did the gasket between the IC core and the lower intake look? Any pics of that one? Do you still have the surging problem and spark plugs getting dirty from oil? Does every spark plug looks the same?
Click to expand...

The lower gasket also looked the same. Oil from the same areas and everything. Sorry no pics. Yes surging still there unfortunatly. I dont belive it is tune related now. Stock bin and everything else you can imagine i have tried with no progress. I've gone to the extreame of unpluging sensors to see if it would stop surging. It idles like crap too. I'm wondering if this could all be from the plugs being the way they are. I really dont know what to do at this point. I am lost. Like i said the surging problem was a gradual problem and has been getting worse. Now does it in gear a LOT more. So thats why I was guessing the plugs....Because im sure there getting worse also.



I have never heard of plugs causing an engine to surge though. Maybe idle funny but not surge. Yes plugs are still burnt. SOMETIMES the plugs don't look the same. Sometimes they are a little off in color compared to the other one. BUT I belive the reason for that is that the oil that is in the LIM is not going to flow evenly to all the cylinders. So cyl #2 may get a drip in the cylinder before cyl #1 does. Thats just me guessing though. Thats all i've been able to do.
 
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And FWIW I used gray RTV with the garlocks....everywhere....still leaks. Thats why i assumed it was pressureized and that it was forcing it into the LIM.



What is the compression suppose to be on these engines in PSI I have a compression tester that I may use to see if the rings are going or that something else is bad. Don't have a leak down tester though but I think my brother may. Also arent all of the cylinders suppose to be within 20% of each other? As far as the PSI readings go that is.
 
VinnieGTP said:
Oil still comes through there though if you don't do one of those. Either way will fix it.

While you're in there, plug the 2 coolant holes. If you cant tap and plug them just sand down a couple dimes and RTV them in there. The dime's diameter is just a tad too big to fit without sanding.
Click to expand...

So just to clarify your saying I need to do the LIM mod and Dave is saying that I have plenty of flow becuase of the breather and shouldnt? The passage that I would cut in the LIM would be for air though. So how is that going to stop the oil if I already have enough flow from the breather? Just trying to get to the problem of this crap. Not trying to question anybody's judgement or anything. So don't take it the wrong way or anything. Trust me I appreciate everyones help and would not have contacted the people i did if i didnt think they could help.
 
Just curious if you tried the cylinder balance test built in to the HPTuners? The cyclinders should be within a couple % of each other.

Your plugs don't look that dark to me. But in the fist picture i see black on the top part of the insulator. That stuff could cause arcing.
 
no cant for the life of me find out how. I get to the point where it says IAC not ready or something like that. I think i even tried comanding the IAC on but it wouldnt let me. What exactly is this doing anyway? Care to explain how?
 


Wow...That seems so long ago lol...I knew the title sounded fimiliar..Thanks BTW...
 
Do a compression test. #s greatly vary but are often in the 155-180 range It is best to do this with the engine warmed up. I never really see them vary more than 5-10 psi between cylinders and if you have one that is reading distinctly lower than I would look into that. A leakdown tester would definately help you isolate where the issue is. those pics of the plugs didnt look bad at all and shouldnt be the source of your problems. Try another set to rule them out if you havent already.
 
Trannyman95 said:
Do a compression test. #s greatly vary but are often in the 155-180 range It is best to do this with the engine warmed up. I never really see them vary more than 5-10 psi between cylinders and if you have one that is reading distinctly lower than I would look into that. A leakdown tester would definately help you isolate where the issue is. those pics of the plugs didnt look bad at all and shouldnt be the source of your problems. Try another set to rule them out if you havent already.
Click to expand...




sure thing. Plugs arent bad? Really? I figured if they werent white that it wasent good. Of coarse if there Bright white then your lean but you get what im saying. Ill post up the results
 
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