T
TDCRacing
Guest
IndeedSS
SS-DD Level Member
I agree, but the entertainment value was still there.
T
TDCRacing
Guest
T
TDCRacing
Guest
dont get me wrong i have always thought it was a good idea and a benefictial one...thats why i was so involved in this whole thing...
IndeedSS
SS-DD Level Member
..
Don't frown. I'm not referring to entertaining as in laughing, but just fun to watch. There are so many other things involved that go along with how fast or slow the IAT reacts and this is what I find entertaining, not funny, just entertaining. It's kind of like that more is better thing...sometimes, yes. Always, no. I say discuss on...
Sabrewings
New member
Why say that? How much are these new IATs going to run?
T
TDCRacing
Guest
T
TDCRacing
Guest
Your kidding right??
SyntheticShield
New member
Allow me to implore upon you to not do this. I may ruffle some feathers for what Iam about to say, but so be it.
This community was started to promote this kind of experimentation and innovation. It was one of the MAJOR considerations in starting this site. To give these people that have these ideas a forum and place in which they could work out details. Fail or Succeed, we at least wanted a place where their ideas would have means of being followed through and tested.
Just because the idea may not make sense to you, appeal to your intellect, or because you cannot comprehend or see the benefit, dont knock him down or take away from the effort. Reptile had an idea, saw an area for possible improvement and went out and acquired the parts out of his own pocket, built what he needed and began testing it. While many of us sit back and just look around and do nothing about the ideas we have, Reptile took action and decided to try something out.
If you dont agree with it, thats fine. If you dont think it will work, thats fine too. It may not, but it may also turn out to have huge benefits. Ask questions instead. If you dont think will have any benefit, then you must have a reason or idea why. Ask a question along those lines instead of something along the line of I dont see the point. Ask a question, see if there may be a point or perspective you have not considered. There is not ONE among us that knows these cars to such a flawless degree that we can idly dismiss an idea as ineffective.
Reptile is trying to show there may be a need. Perhaps more testing is needed and I think even Reptile may agree with that. He has at least demonstrated that the OEM sensor is painfully slow. Lets theorize for a moment. If Reptile takes this to the track and its shows to drop a tenth or two off ET's, how many will come in here and say well I guess I was wrong about that?
I dont mean to come across overly harsh but we must be a community that welcomes innovation of all kinds and whether or not we see the benefit or not. We can at least show our support for someone going through such efforts and expense. Dont just dismiss an idea just because the benefit is not immediately clear. Ask questions, post up ideas. If you want to see testing that helps you see or prove the idea to you, post that up.
When Reptile first told me about this I too was slightly hesitant because in my mind, I registered IAT updates as a function of PCM update speed. The PCM was only going to update so fast and that was it. Reptile has proven me wrong in that and clearly shown it is also a function of the IAT itself and that it can be made to run in more real time. The Grand Prix is not the only place such an idea is employed either.
So please, lets not shut down the innovation in this community. Lets not make the next person afraid to try something out because we may not necessarily see the benefit or point. If it fails in the end and there is no benefit or point, then we can discuss that and tuck that knowledge away for future use or reference. I have learned over the years on things I have tried that while the original idea may have not worked, I gained knowledge and insight that allowed me to make something else work. I have often gained knowledge and wisdom that has allowed me to help others out and to me that will ALWAYS be worth the disappointment in an idea not working out as planned.
This community was started to promote this kind of experimentation and innovation. It was one of the MAJOR considerations in starting this site. To give these people that have these ideas a forum and place in which they could work out details. Fail or Succeed, we at least wanted a place where their ideas would have means of being followed through and tested.
Just because the idea may not make sense to you, appeal to your intellect, or because you cannot comprehend or see the benefit, dont knock him down or take away from the effort. Reptile had an idea, saw an area for possible improvement and went out and acquired the parts out of his own pocket, built what he needed and began testing it. While many of us sit back and just look around and do nothing about the ideas we have, Reptile took action and decided to try something out.
If you dont agree with it, thats fine. If you dont think it will work, thats fine too. It may not, but it may also turn out to have huge benefits. Ask questions instead. If you dont think will have any benefit, then you must have a reason or idea why. Ask a question along those lines instead of something along the line of I dont see the point. Ask a question, see if there may be a point or perspective you have not considered. There is not ONE among us that knows these cars to such a flawless degree that we can idly dismiss an idea as ineffective.
Reptile is trying to show there may be a need. Perhaps more testing is needed and I think even Reptile may agree with that. He has at least demonstrated that the OEM sensor is painfully slow. Lets theorize for a moment. If Reptile takes this to the track and its shows to drop a tenth or two off ET's, how many will come in here and say well I guess I was wrong about that?
I dont mean to come across overly harsh but we must be a community that welcomes innovation of all kinds and whether or not we see the benefit or not. We can at least show our support for someone going through such efforts and expense. Dont just dismiss an idea just because the benefit is not immediately clear. Ask questions, post up ideas. If you want to see testing that helps you see or prove the idea to you, post that up.
When Reptile first told me about this I too was slightly hesitant because in my mind, I registered IAT updates as a function of PCM update speed. The PCM was only going to update so fast and that was it. Reptile has proven me wrong in that and clearly shown it is also a function of the IAT itself and that it can be made to run in more real time. The Grand Prix is not the only place such an idea is employed either.
So please, lets not shut down the innovation in this community. Lets not make the next person afraid to try something out because we may not necessarily see the benefit or point. If it fails in the end and there is no benefit or point, then we can discuss that and tuck that knowledge away for future use or reference. I have learned over the years on things I have tried that while the original idea may have not worked, I gained knowledge and insight that allowed me to make something else work. I have often gained knowledge and wisdom that has allowed me to help others out and to me that will ALWAYS be worth the disappointment in an idea not working out as planned.
IndeedSS
SS-DD Level Member
I liked (enjoyed) the idea and what you presented. Kudos to you for testing the speed differences.
Fish
New member
I never said it was a bad idea. I didnt say he was wrong. I could tell in scans that he was right. The IAT sensor is Slowsky slow. (If anyone sees comcast commercials)
My posts are asking what it will do at the track. That is all. It cannot be tested, unless you are on a track. If you want to be really really technical, if you look at that scan I posted, my IATs went UP at WOT. Will everyones, maybe, maybe not. It is unclear. My whole thing is that it needs to be proven at a track. Intense had to do it, ZZP had to do it. Others that have had ideas had to do it.
That is all. Im not knocking him for trying. The test results were very good. In my eyes, all I see is something that COULD add to the headache at the track. That is my opinion. Something everyone has. Prove it wrong now.
My posts are asking what it will do at the track. That is all. It cannot be tested, unless you are on a track. If you want to be really really technical, if you look at that scan I posted, my IATs went UP at WOT. Will everyones, maybe, maybe not. It is unclear. My whole thing is that it needs to be proven at a track. Intense had to do it, ZZP had to do it. Others that have had ideas had to do it.
That is all. Im not knocking him for trying. The test results were very good. In my eyes, all I see is something that COULD add to the headache at the track. That is my opinion. Something everyone has. Prove it wrong now.
IndeedSS
SS-DD Level Member
I'm with Fish here and as for me I will not feel bad for enjoying this thread despite Scotty's novel
For the IC'd guys. I assume the IAT is useless, Yes? When GM made the calculations for the IAT and the timing it would pull above certain temps, they were assuming X temp at the IAT (which by the way would be way more accurate in the LIM if engineered that way and calculations figured accordingly) + the 275 to 300* that the s/c raises the incoming temps would equal the actual intake temps. Now if you add an IC that drops the outlet temps 100*, how can the IAT be of any real help, other than to use it with a happy knob or timing commander and monitoring your KR along with timing advance.
I still maintain that colder air in makes the car run better regardless of the IAT.
For the non IC's guys, do your temps really fall into the range where the IAT temps would trigger a change in timing?
T
TDCRacing
Guest
Well i have a 160 t stat and that 160*'s of air plus all the heat from the headers and the motor itself your looking at temps any where from 170+ on the iat...Especially when considering heat soak....so yes lol
I'm glad no one was trying to bad mouth anyone's testing or opinions on here...It's just some ppl took the comments a little bit different then they were ment maybe.I mean shoot is is kinda hard to tell sometimes just looking at words that are typed...Good job EVERYBODY!!!
Fish
New member
Ill post again since I actually read synthetics novel. I now steal your novel and publish it for myself. LOL.
90% of this thread is all speculation. 10% fact. The facts are that the stock IATs are slow, and better ones can be used. That has been proven. The rest is speculation as if it will help at the track.
Then you have to raise the questions about people with happy knobs, ICCUs, timing commanders. They dont use a IAT sensor since that is what those devices use to do what they do. Should they ditch their $60-$350 investment? Sure there are tuners to do what they do. However, a killer tune then being able to add 2* of timing on the fly is a very invaluable tool. My friend uses one in his 11.4 GTP. He also has a PT. Zooomer uses an ICCU. Fred from WI uses an ICCU. Would their setups suffer??
There are too many variables. If it works for your DD/weekend warrior, thats who it would be marketed to. There is no other way around it. You have to test. I will add one more thing that I stated earlier. The LQ4 IAT sensor, found in the LQ4 MAF which is a popular upgrade, is leaps and bounds faster then stock as well. It might be in your best interest to test one.
90% of this thread is all speculation. 10% fact. The facts are that the stock IATs are slow, and better ones can be used. That has been proven. The rest is speculation as if it will help at the track.
Then you have to raise the questions about people with happy knobs, ICCUs, timing commanders. They dont use a IAT sensor since that is what those devices use to do what they do. Should they ditch their $60-$350 investment? Sure there are tuners to do what they do. However, a killer tune then being able to add 2* of timing on the fly is a very invaluable tool. My friend uses one in his 11.4 GTP. He also has a PT. Zooomer uses an ICCU. Fred from WI uses an ICCU. Would their setups suffer??
There are too many variables. If it works for your DD/weekend warrior, thats who it would be marketed to. There is no other way around it. You have to test. I will add one more thing that I stated earlier. The LQ4 IAT sensor, found in the LQ4 MAF which is a popular upgrade, is leaps and bounds faster then stock as well. It might be in your best interest to test one.