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Insturment cluster symbols and coolant problem

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danf

New member
So... couple issues.

Apparently I have a leaking coolant system. I unfortunately noticed this when the temp got to about 110c on the gauge. It wasn't anywhere near the red on the gauge.

Waited for the car to cool off... opened the radiator. I don't see coolant. I added a bunch and burped the air out.

So after troubleshooting I found a loose clamp on a heater hose. Yay! Except that only fixed part of the problem. It looks like the elbow is seeping past the o-rings. I spoke with the PO and they said the day after they bought it the plastic elbow exploded and it was replaced at no charge. They did put a metal elbow on. It looks like it might've been leaking and they tried applying rtv to the bottom half of the elbow that goes into the block. Makes no sense right? I can see it is seeping past the ring in the tensioner so I went to GM and ordered the replacement elbow and seals.

Note: I have a 1997, early style. Only one elbow according to GM, the tensioner itself goes into the block sealed with two o-rings for the bottom.

So has anyone had experiences with the metal elbow o-rings leaking? The elbow itself seems to be fine. I'm going to compare it when I take it off... but if everything goes well, I'm thinking of using the GM seals on the metal elbow, that will hopefully stop it. I'm also changing the thermostat at the same time, as I have to drain the rad and block anyway. Is there any reason that I shouldn't use the GM seal with the metal elbow.

Anyhow, that aside. I was thinking... there's supposed to be an indicator for low coolant, why the hell didn't it light up? :th_scratchhead: Oh, someone unplugged the sensor. Plugged it back in and the light now comes on even though the radiator is full. :th_laugh-pointup: Well. I guess I'll replace that sensor, cause it's damn handy knowing if the coolant has dropped. Bah.

Another thing: I have a Canadian car, and the manual lists warning lights in English, but my instrument cluster has international symbols of some sort, some of which I don't know the meaning to. I found an owner's manual on GM's website that shows the English worded warnings and saying Canadian models are similar, but we don't have ANY English warning lights at all, they're all symbols. Does anyone have a cross-reference?
 


On the elbows just make sure you clean up the holes well and lube up the o rings (vaseline works) before you put it all together.


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When you do the elbows, make sure you don't manage to break a piece off the timing cover like I did!! The aluminum part elbow was seized up in there really bad, and in the process of wrestling it off, I broke the timing cover, and turned a small job into a big one. Be gentle.
 
Yeah, I'm not really looking forward to getting that elbow off. It looks like someone smeared some RTV around the bottom part of the elbow to stop a leak, so it could be fun...

The elbow was installed around 6 years ago.

For lube, I've got some silicon based stuff (dielectric grease) that states it won't swell rubber seals, so it should be good to go. If it were for the transmission or oil, I'd just use petroleum jelly... but because this is for the cooling system I'll use the silicon-based grease.
 
inside all 4 holes the elbows slide into might need to be cleaned out. i used a pick to scrape and then like 120 grit sand paper to get all the crap out of it.
 
That job wasn't as bad as I thought... well, when you find the missing bolt holding the tensioner on! :)

This car (1997) only has one elbow. The lower one is cast into the tensioner assembly itself. When I was ordering parts we were looking on the exploded parts diagram and I went "huh".

Anyway, I wound up reusing the metal elbow in it, then putting on the GM o-rings.

Surprisingly, even though RTV was used, it slid right off. I was really expecting a fight to get it off, but once I found that hidden bolt it came right off. Oddly enough, the o-rings on there were disintegrating. I know this can happen when you use petroleum jelly on o-rings that aren't designed for it. I used silicone grease stuff (dielectric.) It said on the tube it will not cause rubber to swell.

It took a freaking HOUR to get all the RTV off. I just used 120? 150? emery cloth and wet the cloth with brake cleaner. Even with that, it still took nearly an hour - the grooves where the seals sat took FOREVER to clean. After cleaning, I rinsed everything well before assembly.

All three joints had RTV and all three were seeping. There was visible evidence of this when the tensioner assembly was removed. That explains why when pressure testing the cooling system it would lose about 1-2 psi after a few minutes. It was such a slow leak that I had to add coolant to the reservoir every 14-18 days. Now I hope that's it. Tomorrow morning I'll wait until the car cools off so I can do a pressure test again. I hope the dang thing holds pressure now - I did verify it's not going into the intake or into the oil pan.

I do have one more question: I decided to replace the thermostat as well with a GM one (even though I did this back in September when I got the car.) WHY is it so damn hard to get the air out of the system. The temp gauge goes up to 100C (right smack in the middle), then the thermostat opens, and it drops to about 40-50 C (about a quarter) in a second. This usually indicates there's an air pocket somewhere. I used a big funnel that attaches to the radiator and left some coolant in it and it did burp air for more than 5 minutes. When it stopped I closed the system for a while, and cracked the bleed screw on the thermostat housing and it spat a bit more air out. All of this was done when the car was on ramps.
 


I pressure tested the rad today. Cap said 15 lb, pumped it up to 12-13 lb, waited for 30 seconds or so, then let it sit for around 5 mins and it didn't move. If it did move, it was slight. This is an Amazon special (the coolant pressure tester set) so I don't know how well built or accurate it is.

Just to correct myself, the temp gauge doesn't drop to 40C when the thermostat pops open (that's the bottom of the gauge), it drops to about 70C (or around 160 F.)

I drove my very short commute to work (like a mile to a mile and a half) and noticed that car fully wamed up, it's never done that previously, so the cooling system must be pressurizing properly now.

I got home and knowing the thermostat was open, brought the RPM up to 2k-3k and opened the bleed valve - it sprayed for a few seconds, then farted out some air for a second and I closed it. I think I may have to do this a few more times to get the air out...
 
Thats the only way I have found, doing it for like a week after any touching of cooling system. I have found also that the jumpy temp readings during warmup are most likely just indicators of a system less than full of coolant. It is remarkable how quickly heat is had with a full system.
 
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