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Hard shifting on long trips

02NavyBlue

02NavyBlue

New member
For the first time on the way home from a bit of a long trip, my trans started shifting hard from 1st - 2nd, 2nd - 3rd, and I believe from 4th - TQ converter lockup. This is the first time it has ever done that, and it's only at 109,500 miles and the fluid looks very good. I'm not hard on my engine or trans at all, today I did some freeway passing but that's normal. I believe it was flushed by the previous owner a year ago or longer since the fluid looks good. The trans pan bolts look untouched (as if the filter wasn't changed). Engine temp was at 200-205 the whole way. I let it sit in a parking lot for 5 minutes or so and started driving again and it stopped, but started again as I made my way home. Temperature seems to be a factor. I just got this car in late October too. A friend of mine had a similar issue with his Monte Carlo, and his fluid was a brown color. It cost him 1,500 for a rebuild. Does this mean my trans is due for costly service or replacement? Anything I can do to help it? I really don't have the money to spend on this...

I have checked out this page http://www.tripleedgeperformance.com/4T65E-Common-Problems.html

There are 3 sections for hard shifts with different codes. Can I pull trans codes with a regular scan tool? There were never any lights on the dash.
I have this code reader:

Actron_Scanner.jpg
 
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Hi there..

You can pull the codes with that type of reader. However that reader typically only shows you current codes, and many trans codes reset with ignition. Therefore if you have the scanner in the car and it shifts hard again, don't turn the ignition off. Hook up and look for codes. Likely you'll find a P1811 Max Adapt Shift. Seems you've looked this up already. A shift kit and bottle of lucas are a common fix to help the issue from happening as the kit makes the trans shift faster.

On the fluid. Wipe the dipstick on a white cloth or paper towel. It will change your impression of how clean the fluid is. :)
 
Thanks, that's pretty good to hear. I will keep the scanner with me when I'm driving to make sure I know if its that code. As with the fluid, the first time I wipe the dipstick it always has a black residue on it that builds up as the fluid moves around in the pan. If I put it back in and wipe it once more, it's the same red color the fluid is. I just consider that the same crap that builds up at the bottom of the pan. On to the solution, I'm not familiar with what a shift kit is, I have seen people on the forums talking about it a lot. I'll try to find a post explaining it if there is one. Should I replace the filter and fluid in the pan and substitute 1 quart with lucas? Or should I just add it as is until my level is full. (It's halfway in the safe zone right now, so making it full should only require less than half of a quart)

This sounds like my situation: http://www.grandprixforums.net/4t65e-hard-shift-solution-25211.html
 
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Yes. Transgo shift kit for a 4T65E and a bottle of Lucas stop slip. Since you have to drop the pan to do it, you'll get a service in and should change filter while you are there.
 
Sorry for bumping as I don't necessarily need a reply, but I'd like to update this a little bit before the final post after the shift kit.

The hard shifting only happened once so far in the time I've owned the car, which was described in the original post. Since then I haven't taken many long trips, or changed anything with the transmission at all. Today I took a long drive similar to the one I described when the trans acted up. To my surprise it did not enter the max adapt shift mode. The only reason that I can think of is that I flushed my cooling system and replaced my stock t-stat with a 180°. It was running at about 190-195 most of the way, and in a subdivision it got to 201. When it acted up a few weeks ago the temp was 200-205. As I already knew, the temperature has a large affect on this trans problem, if I threw in a cooler it may be fine. Although I may do that in addition to a shift kit.

Getting to the point, it seems that as the trans warms up, the shifts continuously get a little slower. It doesn't get extremely bad, but with a heightened sense of paying attention to it, I can definitely notice a difference. When cold, the shifts are almost instant (I like those kind of shifts), and when it gets hot it takes about an extra half second. It almost makes me cringe thinking of the extra material/life it's taking off of the trans know it's slipping more in between gears than it needs to. I'm thinking a shift kit seems like the perfect solution for my problem.

As a possible reassurance, has anybody been in this situation and a shift kit worked perfect? or got bad results? Also If anyone can link me to a detailed how-to on installing a shift kit, that would be great. I have looked around and found a few okay ones.
 


I had the same issue. Shift kit did a fantastic job for me. Never ever EVER had the trans drag in shifting times again.
 
Thanks for the reply. Any tips you can give for someone doing this for the first time?
This is the kit I'm using:
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I'm just doing the accumulator assembly. I also noticed another kit that I could only find on certain sites that includes a scotch-brite pad to get rid of the glossy surface in the cylinder bore to prevent chatter.
The one I'm buying has this at the bottom:
We have recently added an option to this item to included the lower accumulator body gasket plate,accumulator piston seals, scotchbrite pad, and servo cover to case o-ring. If you do not already have gaskets then you should include this with your shift kit.
Do I need to replace the accumulator gasket? Should I go out and buy a scotch-brite pad since the kit I found doesn't include it? Are the other parts listed in the red needed (if they aren't included already)?
Lots of questions I know, but I don't want to mess anything up. Advice is appreciated.
 
On the gasket for the lower accumulator, if its included yes, replace it. It's a paper style gasket and can break if you're not careful. Why take a chance? Go ahead and replace. Scotch brites are in my dollar store. 3 pack for a buck. Could probably get away without it, but for $1, why not? Plus the other 2 pads can be used on the dishes.. fwd servo cover, I think this was an update. Short lip seal replaced by the long lip seal. If you're changing the springs in there I would replace it. Most people only change out the accumulator parts.
 
The scotch pad is nice..but not necessary. If you have a piece of one laying around.. Give the walls of the accumulator a brush with it to clean any glaze off them.
 
Well to give an update, I changed the fluid and filter, as well as installed the transgo shift kit. I haven't done enough driving to know anything but my upshifts are just about the same, and down shifts are a lot better.
Pics:
Supplies
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Looks good, no chunks or flakes. I posted a pic of my fluid color, and some people say it looks like it's been done before since it would be darker than this by 110k, but I'm thinking its never been serviced before now.
dsc04037custom.jpg

Filter off.
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Accumulator out
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Old hardware
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Shift kit installed
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Cleaned up the pan & new gasket
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torquing the accumulator bolts
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Everything put back together
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All bolts started to properly align the gasket
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Torquing the pan bolts
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Line off to flush a bit more fluid.
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Total fluid used. I only flushed a quart and a half before it started looking like new fluid.
dsc04124custom.jpg
 
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Ginseng said:
check the bolts torque in a week
Click to expand...

An hour after I first torqued them, I was able to get another quarter turn out of some. It was an extra dollar for the kit with the gasket and seal, and I got it just in case I had problems, but ended up just using it. It was faster than cleaning all of the dirt off the old one, and it shouldn't leak.
 


Nice Write up. It looks like I will be doing this task this weekend. Have to find a shift kit locally or order.
 
Actually this isn't the write up. This is just a few pictures and captions. I wrote a write-up here http://www.grandprixforums.net/diy-...t-kit-4t65e-very-detailed-pictures-79486.html

But this was a forum post about an issue I was having, so since I already took care of it I should probably give an update.

After the shift kit install, the shifts during long trips were a lot better and didn't get real sloppy like they used to. This could have been the end of the problem, but I also decided I would add an independent trans cooler as well to help out even more. Now they never even get a bit sloppy, they're just like they should be.
 
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