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had it with pontiac

Probably because they are cranking up the BOOST without prepping the engine for it.
Bolting on bigger turbos and other stuff.

Just like swapping a pulley on a supercharger and expecting the stock engine to take the abuse.

The only thing Ive seen a GN break were the rear ends. If theyre built correctly, they'll put it down all day long.

Same tends to apply to most decent engines.

Yea, but opinions are like buttholes. Everyones got one.

Both missing my point completely.

Theres a button beside the "quote" button.

It will help you consolidate your posts. :th_thumb-up:

Go buy a Honda already.

NSX is a great car with no problems and outpaced Ferrari's back in the day.

You will PAY for quality.

A GM will nickel and dime you.

And I'm not sure cops actually like the W body impala's...

3800 means the same BS issues that we all tend to deal with like faulty electronics on the whole and poor gasket design.

Where ever do you get your numbers? Because I'm sure they don't apply to the entire fleet.

Heres a true story.... Grand Prix's of the 97-03 variety are one of the most common cars in my town.

I haven't had a single person ask me to price out bearings for one in my 2 years at a parts store.

In fact the only things i've ever been asked for are oil filters, air filters, CAI, and brakes. Not even a single caliper.

No alternators, no LIM gaskets, no nothing.

In the shop however we have had a couple LIM gasket jobs but nothing else major in terms of suspension or electrical.
 


You are ill informed, impala is not the only service vehicle first of all, as proof of that my last car was a 1998 buick regal and it was in fact a gm service vehicle.
o thats completely blown out of the water..

What do you want, a cookie?
Since when does a Regal become a service vehicle. HOw many cops/taxis/fleet vehicles use buick regals unless its specific to their needs. (Besides rental companies)

Okay tell ya what take 31 grand and you go see if you can buy better than a 426 hp v8 with independent suspension, 4 piston brembo brakes, a comfy interior, with a 5 year 100,000 mile warranty for less, cause thats what you get with the camaro. ..

Yea, you also get a 3/36K warranty on the body, and only 5 years on that powertrain. It ain't all that great.
You missed the drift - you don't bring an iconic car back from the dead just to save your hide in the industry.

Your going to want to change the spark plugs every 75,000 miles or so anyways its an expendable part. And its not hard to do at all, your making it seem like swapping a plug requires years of experience

And a fuel filter? replacing fluids? belts? these are all expendable and finite parts yet again you speak as if for some reason a they would last significantly longer on a different car which yet again is incorrect. If you hate a car because you can't deal with basic maintenance pay for a bus pass .

Again, you didn't read clearly - I didn't suggest these parts should last longer. I said that sometimes they do, sometimes they dont, but its a good idea to keep an eye on them and get into a routine.

Almost everything you have mentioned here is typical maintenance that would be the same on all cars. Tire rotation? really? since when is that a big deal that’s pretty standard on all cars accept I rotate mine every 5000 on the goodyear plan..

For a snot nosed teen, it's alot. Most dont know to do it, most don't care.
That's why I posted it because there's a large percentage of drivers that ARE unaware of these tasks.

You may think this is common knowledge, but it isn't. You may have the skills to maintain properly but other people don't. Most people drive their cars until they drop, find out that it's too expensive for a shop to fix, so then they come here in search of free help.

Ive owned 3 3800 cars between 95 and 03 all well into their years and none have needed a lower intake seal or an intake manifold.

Borrowed time. It'll catch ya!

The Eaton will last well over 100 if well taken care of. One of my friends GTP's is sitting at 350,000 miles and its supercharger has never even been touched much less rebuilt. .


Give him a cookie too.

As for the transmission i believe their was a recall on the overdrive gear. That was the common issue with it. Gear slippage has never been a factor in any of my engines so i don't know where your getting it from.

Where? Trans shops. Personal experience, and lots and lots of wrenching. Clutches slip, not gears. We're talking transmissions, not engines. Look at a good rebuild kit for a 4T60 and 4T65 and you'll see improvements that are made over a stock transmission for reliability.


Also a transmission flush past 100,000 miles isn't something id recommend. By that point the gaskets will likely be a little cracked or dried out. A flush will first of all have clean fluid which is all well and good but its thinner than the fluid that was in it so it has a chance to leak. Plus the cracked and dried out gaskets may crack apart due to the flushing process and cause a leak.


You mean the pan gasket that you have to replace anyway? I see...
(Have you done this on any of your vehicles?)
You have merit on the thinner fluid and 100k is getting on the fringe of leaving it be. Moreso it's because you loose all the clutch/friction material in fluid suspention on a high mileage trans, and when you remove all that, suddenly there's nothing slippery to ride on. So a old transmission can suddenly become a dead transmission.

This isn't a who's right who's wrong competition. I posted that generic list as a rough guide. If you take it to the literal Nth degree, you shouldn't be reading an online forum.
 
For a snot nosed teen, it's alot. Most dont know to do it, most don't care.
That's why I posted it because there's a large percentage of drivers that ARE unaware of these tasks.

You may think this is common knowledge, but it isn't. You may have the skills to maintain properly but other people don't. Most people drive their cars until they drop, find out that it's too expensive for a shop to fix, so then they come here in search of free help.

Where? Trans shops. Personal experience, and lots and lots of wrenching. Clutches slip, not gears. We're talking transmissions, not engines. Look at a good rebuild kit for a 4T60 and 4T65 and you'll see improvements that are made over a stock transmission for reliability.

You win these ones hands down.

Why the hell are TMPS's mandatory? Because people are too ignorant about cars to check their tire pressure even if their lives depend on it.
 
I think my role as douchenozzle Trans Am owner has been eclipsed. :D


Oh, and hey, flash...Grand Nationals had an 8.5" rear- Pretty damn durable, especially behind a turbo/2004-R combo.
 
my gp was a 2001 gt that i later did a ssm90 on i bought it with 90 k miles and traded it in with 125k miles and the only things i chad to fix besides brakes and fluids were the tranny and the block heater was leaking and i raced the car at the track atleast 2 times a month and drove it pretty hard imo the gp was the best car ive ever owned.
 


Lets go back through these again shall we

What do you want, a cookie?
Since when does a Regal become a service vehicle. HOw many cops/taxis/fleet vehicles use buick regals unless its specific to their needs. (Besides rental companies)

Okay lets list them, or atleast the ones that i can think of in your vague description of service vehicle. About 90 percent of the police vehicles in my home town of Springfield, as well as where i currently reside. Are Ford Crown Victoria's and Mercury Grand Marqui's. The remaining 10 percent is a small portion of the downtown police department which is running the new model's of the Malibu and impala. As for other emergency vehicles. The Sheriff's run an entirely Ford and Dodge fleet consisting of F150's for intercepting semi trucks, Crown Victorias, and Dodge Chargers. Nextly the fire department asside from the fire trucks. Thier smaller vehicles designed for carrying paramedics also run Ford Explorers. So far i dont see a single 3800 vehicle in this group. As for "service vehicles" you did not clearly define this team, i meant as service vehicles for the actual company which is what i meant by GM service vehicle. I bought the Buick used just above 100,000 miles direct from a GM service driver who drove across the country for the company in this car. The Buick was actually one of the common choices because of its reliable drive-train and comfortable interior


Yea, you also get a 3/36K warranty on the body, and only 5 years on that powertrain. It ain't all that great.
You missed the drift - you don't bring an iconic car back from the dead just to save your hide in the industry.

This is mostly incorrect as well. First of all the other two members of the big three had already brought their iconic cars back from the dead long before chevy decided to. Ill admit pontiac fell through by bringing out the gto as a re badged vauxhall manaro, which made me fairly angry since me and my father happen to be past owners of the original. But, Chevy brought back the camaro as competition the 60's style was back and that is what people wanted in their sports car. Ford had redesigned the new mustang in tribute to the old style late 60's styling. Ford had also brought back the Ford GT in 2006 to only have it fail. And Dodge had already brought back the Challenger and the Charger which had both been dead much longer than the Camaro. The Camaro hasnt even been dead for 10 years and your complaining. If you're going to make a big deal out of the Camaro being brought back you should also take note of the other two big three members as they happen to be the main cause. The Camaro however is not what is keeping general motors afloat. As of may 2010 two of the top 10 best selling cars were the Silverado and the Malibu, the camaro however was much lower on the list


For a snot nosed teen, it's alot. Most dont know to do it, most don't care.
That's why I posted it because there's a large percentage of drivers that ARE unaware of these tasks.

Just so you know i'm a 19 year old going on 20, and I'm an engineering college student with a literal pile of student loans to pay off once I graduate. Money isn't easy to come by yet I dont find maintenance to be an issue, my issue is saving up the money to build my car the way I want it to be. I realize that i am much more experienced with vehicles than the average car owner out there. However i also realize oil changes and tire rotations aren't all that expensive to have done or to do yourself neither is any of the maintenance that you mentioned in your earlier post.

You may think this is common knowledge, but it isn't. You may have the skills to maintain properly but other people don't. Most people drive their cars until they drop, find out that it's too expensive for a shop to fix, so then they come here in search of free help.

For this portion i would like to point out that if any owner actually decided to crack open the likely dust covered and cobweb coated owners manual they would notice multiple diagrams and helpful tips for the maintenance knowledge they require. Otherwise they can always go to a place like good year and pay the 25 bucks every 3000 miles or so for an oil change. This shouldn't be hard considering theres an oil life gauge on every grand prix 97 through 03. I know some ignorant people and im sure everyone does. But if you cant see the glowing red screen in the middle of your dash saying oil life 0% then you shouldn't be driving.


Borrowed time. It'll catch ya!
As for this statement, no it wont, and no it hasn't. I spend time every weekend checking my vehicle over as well as the standard oil change, alignments, inspections, and tire rotations that any good owner should do. I put a 98,000 miles on the buick plus the 100,000 or so it had when i got it. And it never had a single issue asside from one window motor going out. Which is impressive with a 11 year old car, as it was when i owned it. As for the grand prix its in perfect health at 121,000 miles and going strong.



Where? Trans shops. Personal experience, and lots and lots of wrenching. Clutches slip, not gears. We're talking transmissions, not engines. Look at a good rebuild kit for a 4T60 and 4T65 and you'll see improvements that are made over a stock transmission for reliability.

For this one. This entire paragraph aside from the first sentence or so is what people would call nit-picking. Its more common to hear the term gear slippage than clutch slippage in my particular circle of friends. Pardon my usage of the word, considering the fact that gears can't really slip unless you have done something completely idiotic any other person would know what i ment. And yes i did in fact mean transmission and if you hadnt understood what i meant than you wouldn't have wrote this so that means the other readers understood it as well. As for the "stock improvements" the stock tranny is plenty strong when I opened mine up to replace the overdrive gear the everything else was in near perfect shape. However if someone ran there car into the dirt or simply didn't take care of it or upped the engines hp I can see stock improvements being required just so it can handle the extra work load. So for that portion yea I'd say your correct on that standpoint considering how bad some people are on there cars.





You mean the pan gasket that you have to replace anyway? I see...
(Have you done this on any of your vehicles?)
You have merit on the thinner fluid and 100k is getting on the fringe of leaving it be. Moreso it's because you loose all the clutch/friction material in fluid suspention on a high mileage trans, and when you remove all that, suddenly there's nothing slippery to ride on. So a old transmission can suddenly become a dead transmission.

As for this part, that was a general fact about transmissions that happens to be typical. Its not specific to any one situation. To give an example ill use the car which you seem to dislike. The 2010 camaro, to change transmission fluid all you have to do is pump out the old from the fluid cap on top of the tranny and pump in some new no removal of pan required. However when i have swapped fluid in the transmissions of some of the muscle cars ive worked on the leaking has been the big issue, nothing else. So as such I had not taken it into account, so i will take your word on it.

This isn't a who's right who's wrong competition. I posted that generic list as a rough guide. If you take it to the literal Nth degree, you shouldn't be reading an online forum.

I agree. No this is not a whose is right and who is wrong competition at all. This entire posting was about how one guy thought he might give up on pontiac, and as a member of a grand prix forum it is not our job to insult his vehicle. It is our job to help somone with issues and offer up our opinions. Not to bash the car the forum is based off of or the company that made it. I have not been a part of the forum for long but these are the things that a forum should be about. If you do not like the car then why spend so much time in a forum talking about how bad it and its company is. As for making a list of maintenance problems. I do believe that if a person has the thought of coming to a forum like this to ask people about his cars issues there is a pretty good chance he takes care of simple maintenance.
 
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:th_biggrin2: Ok Pot.

Signed,
Kettle.
:th_blahblah:


OK, My God.
1. Cars break
2. Bicycle break
3. Taxi break
4. Buses break
5. Legs can break
6. Wheel chairs break
:th_angry-censored:
If you going to ***** about things breaking then take them to a place that fixes them and pay them the $$$$. Because *****ing isnt going to get you anywhere, and if you dont maintain you stuff AKA "Routine maintenance" more stuff will break faster.


"NOTHING LASTS FOREVER"


trickytransam: I beleve in a friendly razzing somtimes here, but DUDE Half of your information is misleading.

Buy an Impala if you want GM. Impala is the service vehicle for GM and from what I have heard is that they hold up a whole lot better than the rest.
..... ITS THE SAME THING AS A GRAND PRIX.
 
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This whole thread makes me lol. Summary? Some cars are lemons, some parts are lemons, some people/shops are lemons, w-bodies are w-bodies, and routine maintenance is a good idea unless you like spending money on parts or want a new vehicle.

FWIW, here's a list of issues I've had with my 2004 GP in order (135k miles, beaten the **** out of):
-Used up all the gas in the tank (oh noez! +1 dislike for Pontiac)
-Burnt out bulbs (at this point the maintenance is just getting to be too much, not sure if I like Pontiac)
-Needed an oil change (now I'm really hating Pontiac)
-Replaced 3 wheel bearings, only one of which was needed (this is when I decided Pontiac was pure evil and should be avoided at all cost)

Maintenance?
-New full-synthetic/filter every ~3k (a couple times it was more like every 5k lol)
-New tires at ~120k
-New platinumish plugs at ~134k
-New huge Sceptre air filter at ~135k, gonna built an acrylic CAI box for it (Why acrylic? Because I like things that are clear *****!)

Still on the stock tranny even though I piss-grind that mother****er after every stop I make. Still on the stock alternator. Probably gonna replace the battery pretty soon. I'll replace the fuel filter when I switch to E85. The transmission can kiss my ass, the sooner it suicides the sooner I have a reason to fund a new fully built TEP trans.

Currently the car is at the dealership where I bought it for a nice fix after banking that mofo into some ice and hitting a domed (wtf?) manhole in someone's front yard (more wtf?). Broke a bunch of ****, my fault. Oops.

All in all I think I got a champ of a car. Not a serious issue has been had that isn't my fault.
 
-Used up all the gas in the tank (oh noez! +1 dislike for Pontiac)
-Burnt out bulbs (at this point the maintenance is just getting to be too much, not sure if I like Pontiac)
-Needed an oil change (now I'm really hating Pontiac)
-Replaced 3 wheel bearings, only one of which was needed (this is when I decided Pontiac was pure evil and should be avoided at all cost)

Sounds like you have a Lemon lol :th_beatdeadhorse:
 


so it wasnt the tp sensor after all that was causing the jerking in my 2002 gp its my trans.yep after alot of research this 4t65e is a piece of s--t! talked to 4 different trans shops and all said these are problems.they need to be recalibrated in order to shift right.$725 job.thanks again gm!this trans also had the fluids and filter changed every 30000 miles.and we wonder why were failing as a country!
 


seriously? those guys just took you for a ride. L-O-L at you for paying $800 for a small job on the transmission.
 
reliability with cars is a hit and miss.. you hear people talking about how their toyotas just hit 300k miles, my sister's 07 camry is around 70k and the thing is falling apart... both visors fell off, the A pillars came unclipped and wont go back in, it also has a ton of other problems
 
Explorer beaten and crapped out as ****. 255k, runnin stroooong.

My prix. 150k miles, a lot of maintenance has been a bit slackerish, but gives me no problems and runs very, very strong. Sure, gotta do the suspension. Sure, gotta paint the bumper. Sure, had to rebuild brakes. But is it worth it? Hellzyah, car is still lookin fine, working great, and not giving me ANY headaches.
 
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