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Flash L67 bin to L36 PCM possible?

S

scubasteve231

New member
I am new to PCM tuning and hoping to learn from those more experienced. I almost pulled the trigger on purchasing HPTuners, but I ended doing some more research which ultimately landed me at the wealth of information I found here. After some reading here, I ordered an AVT box so I could use DHP Powrtuner and Tinytuner.

Long story short, I need to end up with a 1997 L67 PCM.

My research shows that all 3800 cars for 1997 used one PCM, whether L36 or L67. Parts catalogs that offer refurbished PCM's will sell you the same part number for any car that year, and tell you that further programming is required. This leads me to believe that all these PCM's are electrically identical inside, with only the software being the difference. Is this correct?

Could I buy a 1997 L36 PCM (since they very plentiful and so easy to find) and then write a 1997 L67 bin file to it with the DHP software, and then end up with a 1997 L67 PCM?

Am I right in thinking that the .bin file is ALL of the software and tuning constants that the PCM uses?
 


you can use either na or sc 97 pcm, dont matter. you can use the one in your car as well.

flash a 97 l67 bin file with the wot timing lowered one degree. cause its a top swap. you need a l67 map sensor and its pig tail and then swap th epig tail on your harness. and a bbv code deleted and of course you know you need headers for a top swap,

so delete the cat and rear o2 sensor codes. delete the egr also if you want to get rid of that.

if you want i can send a bin file for your car all set up. takes no time to build a canned tune really. actually, i got one already i made for another guy a while back. all 97 bin files work for you guys, no security learn that year.
 
Scottydoggs said:
you can use either na or sc 97 pcm, dont matter. you can use the one in your car as well.

flash a 97 l67 bin file with the wot timing lowered one degree. cause its a top swap. you need a l67 map sensor and its pig tail and then swap th epig tail on your harness. and a bbv code deleted and of course you know you need headers for a top swap,

so delete the cat and rear o2 sensor codes. delete the egr also if you want to get rid of that.

if you want i can send a bin file for your car all set up. takes no time to build a canned tune really. actually, i got one already i made for another guy a while back. all 97 bin files work for you guys, no security learn that year.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the help, good to know that I don't have to track down an actual L67 PCM. I bought a 1997 L36 PCM today, so I should be in business pretty soon.

This is actually not a top swap. Here's the longer version of the story:

The car is a 1996 Firebird 3.8 5 speed manual and I am planning to turbocharge the L36. The plan is to run around 6 psi and end up with a fun daily driver. While I could tune the 1996 PCM, the 1997 PCM is a direct plug in for 1996 cars and from what I've read, it is just better overall in terms of processing power and aftermarket support.

In terms of PCM code, I could have chosen one of two routes:

1. 1997 Grand Prix GTP bin file
Pro
-Seems to be very popular, lots of support
-.bin files very easy to get
-already set up for boost
Con
-requires different MAP sensor
-not set up for manual trans
-may not have provisions for the clutch switch input that disables cruise control


2. 1997 Camaro 3.8 M5 bin file
Pro
-Perfectly matched to car and trans
-Can use existing MAP sensor
Con
-Seems to be uncommon, possibly not mapped well, not many people talking about these
-Have not been able to find this .bin file for free on internet
-Rare to find these PCM's in junkyards or on eBay
-Will need to tune for boost
-This code uses FOUR oxygen sensors: I can't use the bank sensors since they would be pre-turbocharger, not sure if I could tune them out?
--1 on each exhaust manifold (bank sensors)
--1 on y pipe before cat
--1 after cat

It just made more sense to run the L67 PCM because of how much support is available, and the list of cons is fairly short and should be easy to work around.

I appreciate the offer on the .bin file. I don't know that a canned tune would work well given the turbocharger, but seeing the .bin file for a generic boosted L36 or top swap would at least give me somewhat of a starting point if you have anything like that to send.

Do you know if the later L32 MAP sensor puts out a signal identical to the L67 MAP sensor? Reason I ask is because the L32 MAP sensor is physically the same as the L36 Fbody sensor, it will bolt to the intake and plug right in to the harness with no mods. I've ready some reports that say they are interchangeable but I want to make sure.
 
if the camaro has a pcm in it, use that one. and your gonna have to make the camaro bin into a sc bin. cause theres no l67 camaro's made.

with dhp you open the camaro bin file and a 97 gtp bin side by side, then copy all the files over, with dhp its as easy and dragging the file from one bin to the other. use tiny tuner to make a supercharger present.

if your running a ic with the turbo you can run 10 psi easy. maybe more.
 
IIRC the 96 is a 256mb file pcm and the 97 is a 512. If you really wanted to do yourself justice...upgrade to a 98+. I think it's about 13 pins in different places on the gp harness.

It's a solid cluster on a bonneville lol
 


i was looking over a l36 96 camaro bin, its lacking the sc present deal. you'd just have to copy a bunch of files. is this camaro already a 5 speed? or are you swapping that too?
 
Scottydoggs said:
if the camaro has a pcm in it, use that one. and your gonna have to make the camaro bin into a sc bin. cause theres no l67 camaro's made.

with dhp you open the camaro bin file and a 97 gtp bin side by side, then copy all the files over, with dhp its as easy and dragging the file from one bin to the other. use tiny tuner to make a supercharger present.

if your running a ic with the turbo you can run 10 psi easy. maybe more.
Click to expand...

The car does have the stock 1996 PCM in it, but from what I understand, it's an oddball PCM that was ONLY used in the 1995-1996 3.8 Fbody and it was GM's first OBDII PCM. I know HPTuners doesn't support this PCM, and some scan tools have trouble talking to it. Most 1996 V6 F-Body owners will swap to a 1997 PCM since it is a direct plug in swap. Luckily, GM made it pin for pin compatible.

I have compared PCM pin schematic from a 1997 GTP and my 1996 Firebird and all the pin positions are the same. I could definitely plug in a 1997 L67 PCM and it would run the car, provide I turned off the auto trans related items.

Minor differences-
-The clutch switch in the manual trans config connects to the same pin on the PCM that the neutral/park switch does in the auto trans config. Should work the same, the description says it prevent idle flare when removing load from engine (shifting to neutral/park, pushing in clutch).
-The extra 2 oxygen sensors specific to the F-body connect to pins that aren't used in the L67 configuration. I just have to make sure that oxygen sensors that the L67 computer is actively reading are placed in the exhaust at the right points.

If I could somehow make a hybrid of the the 1997 Fbody manual trans .bin and the 1997 L67 .bin that would seem to be ideal, but I haven't been able to find a 1997 3.8 M5 bin anywhere.

Using the L67 PCM seems odd at first, but it looks to be pretty straight forward just to take the L67 bin and change it so it doesn't worry about the auto trans. After that it's all electrically compatible, pin for pin on the PCM/wiring harness.
 
BillBoost37 said:
IIRC the 96 is a 256mb file pcm and the 97 is a 512. If you really wanted to do yourself justice...upgrade to a 98+. I think it's about 13 pins in different places on the gp harness.

It's a solid cluster on a bonneville lol
Click to expand...

I actually looked at doing a 98+ PCM swap. I found a post on some other forum where someone said that ALL but 4 wires had to be re-pinned in the PCM connector.:th_eyepopping: After that, the 1997 swap seemed so much more attractive, despite being a less powerful computer.

I'll see if I can track down a 1998 pin schematic to compare with my car and get a more accurate idea of how hard it would be.
 
cool, you've done lots of homework i see.

i got dhp and can see all these bins, as i have em all. ill check a 97 bin over to see if its more user friendly or not. even the 97 gtp bins are not as updated as a 98 up.
 
i just opened a camaro l36 bin, its got the place to turn on the sc, and its a 4 speed bin already. i bet i could tune this pig lol
 


it lists the gears 1 through 4 only i saw. ive been know to not read everything tho lol

unless in 97 there was a 4 speed option.
 
BillBoost37 - I looked into the 98+ computer swap a little more. http://engine.firebirdv6.com/38pin.html That page gives a side by side view of F-Body PCM wiring changes from 95 to 02. It looks like the power, ground, and serial lines are the same pins but EVERYTHING else is different. With that much work involved to re-pin the connectors, I'm thinking the 97 PCM is the way to go unless some very compelling reasons come up to do the 98+ swap.

Fivefingerdeathpunch - Good to see you here!

Scottydoggs - Interesting that you are seeing the 4 gears in a manual trans tune. I will be getting my AVT box this weekend, so I'll be able to start playing with the DHP software and I'm sure I'll have more questions as I start to get my feet wet. The first thing I'll do is read the stock 1996 bin and I'll post it here.
 


if you take the pcm plugs apart, the pins are all numbered where they get pinned. to un pin them is cake really. i got pics of how to take em apart some where if you need em.
 
Scottydoggs said:
if you take the pcm plugs apart, the pins are all numbered where they get pinned. to un pin them is cake really. i got pics of how to take em apart some where if you need em.
Click to expand...

You and BillBoost37 planted a seed in my head about the 98 PCM. I was doing a little more research, and I found out that while the 97 PCM is better than the 96, the 97 has some issues with knock retard so I started to re-consider the 98 swap even though it is more work. I found this thread where someone successfully did the swap on an f-body: http://forum.camarov6.com/showthread.php?t=88683 There's a few kinks to work out but otherwise the compatibility is pretty good. Reading that made me feel a lot better about re-pinning the harness.

I found a 98 PCM with the connectors and a short section of harness still attached for $14 shipped, so I went ahead and bought it. I'm really glad to have the extra set of PCM connectors, because that means I can use these new connectors in such a way that I transfer the wires from existing connectors to the new connectors one at a time. Also, I can use the left over set of connectors/wiring to make a bench flash harness as well.

I also have the 97 PCM on it's way to me (was $24 shipped). I may try the 97 swap first as a learning/experience exercise, and then do the 98 swap later on.

I received my AVT box, but I didn't get a chance to play with it this weekend.

I still need to track down a 2 bar MAP sensor before I can try the L67 .bin files. Since is a new one is $50, I'm trying to find a good deal on a used one but haven't had any luck.
 
hers how the pcm plugs come apart.

on the edges of the caps is a thin tab, pull it back with a pick. or a nail works too. un clip one side, keeping it lifted a bit, then un hook the other side, it slides up and off.

003_zps56d074df.jpg


see the tab next to the pins. pull on the tab while pulling the wire out.

005_zpsb445ed47.jpg


the grey cap is just clipped on the metal part, easy enough to figure out. the metal part, you see the white tabs, push them in with a pick and it pushes out.

note the numbers on the metal frame, those are your pin #'s. if a hole you need is sealed by the yellow rubber thing there, poke a hole in it with a pick and push the pinned wire through it.
006_zps4b139830.jpg


007_zps2b579f06.jpg



this bolt has a washer on it thats pressed on the bolt, it needs to be cut off with dykes, or a hammer and screw driver to punch the bolt out also works. need to prop the plug up so its supported in a way the bolt can come out.

002_zpsfc21f367.jpg


to re pin the plug push the pinned wire through the rubber parts and you will feel it click, then pull back on it to make sure its seated.

i made 7 off boards in one sitting. its a joy to make them lol

001_zpsldlu4glr.jpg



memory's lol

001_zpsockoqqyw.jpg



oh, obd2 ports, pull the blue plug locks out, then same deal with a tab to move and pull the pinned wire out, the numbers are on the plastic plug.
 
I am having a sure f***** time trying to get my 2001 v6 camaro with the L32 3800Sc swap 5spd manual with the p04 camaro pcm tuned to run properly any help is greatly appreciated
 
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