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Engine swap for dummies?

Valhad

Valhad

New member
Short version:
What's the quickest/easiest way to pull an engine:
1)from a junkyard car I don't care about?
2)from my car without removing the transmission?

Long Version:
A thousand pardons if this is here somewhere. I've searched, but can't seem to come up with quite what I'm after.

I've got a bad motor, and need to swap it out. Lots of people have this problem, and I've found tons of good info on it. Since I have a 2001 GT, I know that I can use pretty much any vin K engine without major hassles, or I can get an N/A engine from an 05+ and swap a few parts and be good to go. Thanks to everyone who's already answered these questions!

I've seen this thread: http://www.grandprixforums.net/how-remove-transmission-35485.html which lays out how to remove an engine+tranny (thanks Bill!) but I can't find anything on removing JUST the engine. The Hayes manual I've got is really vague on it, and makes it sound like a HUGE undertaking. However, people pull engines from junkyard cars all the time - and I'm pretty sure they don't spend two days doing it. :P

Can anyone tell me what to expect here? Or maybe point me at useful threads I've overlooked? If there's not a "for dummies" walkthrough, I figured I'd make one with what I learn here.


Thanks!
Valhad
 


Well, in case anyone else stumbles on this thread looking for answers, here are a couple useful threads I've found so far after some more searching:

I did find this advice on how to pull the motor.
http://www.grandprixforums.net/pulli...-up-10716.html (Pulling the motor write up)

Also, this one, which has a video, even.
http://www.grandprixforums.net/l67-m...deo-23248.html (L67 motor swap (with video)) <-- note: video is not actually helpful. It's just... a video.

And this thread has helpful info on the bolts and sizes you should expect to encounter if you are trying to split the engine and trans in the car:
http://www.grandprixforums.net/6-bolts-5-a-19569.html
 
Last edited:
25 minutes before I leave work...let's see how I do.

1. Jack and support the car
2. Disconnect negative battery cable
3. Drain engine oil and coolant
Top of motor
Tools: hose clamp tool, pick, 10mm socket, magnet (for 10mm's if needed)
4. Disconnect TPS, MAP, IAC, Evap, big connector next to passenger dogbone connection (on motor), ECT, alternator (cable plus connector), EGR and injectors. (Injectors on older style is push in on wire clip and wiggle connctor off)
5. Unclip the couple of places the wiring loom is held on the top of motor. Unclip loom that goes down by the rear of the anlternator.
6. Unhook top radiator hose at engine, Unhook lower at radiator or engine, remove heater hoses at alternator bracket.
7. Disconnect fuel lines. If you do not have the tool, remove the 4 10mm nuts holding the fuel rail to the engine and gently flop the rail with lines attached up on the cowl/windshield. Disconnect Evap lines at the evap soleniod. Typically one squeeze to make round connector.

Under passenger side
13mm, 15mm, 18mm, 19mm sockets, long extension (close to 3 feet), something to tie up a power steering pump, phillips screw driver
8. Remove passenger tire
9. Remove splash shield
10. Going through the power steering pump pulley, loosen 2 13mm bolts. One at 6 o'clock, one at 12. Leave the bolts in the pump. Tie the pump up to the strut tower or hood support to hold it up. NOTE: if this is the first time the pump has been moved, there is a wire/connector clipped to the back of it. Pull the connector loose from the pump. And disconnect the connector. This is your rear knock sensor extension harness.
11. Disconnect the oil pressure sensor and remove the oil pressure sensor. It will leak about a 1/2 cup of oil.
12. Look straight in at a black bracket from teh diff to engine. Remove the 4 13mm bolts holding it in. Remove bracket
13. Look along the back of the engine toward the transmission, see the 18mm bolt. Using the long extensions and a deep 18mm socket, remove that bolt. The long socket will hold the bolt.
14. Remove the electrical connector on the top front of the AC compressor. Remove 3 15mm nuts holding the AC compressor to the bracket.
15. Look under the motor mount under the subframe and remove 2 15mm nuts holding the mount to the subframe.

Under front of car:
8mm, 10mm, 13mm, 15mm, 18mm sockets, flat screw driver, I like a 10mm ratcheting wrench, pick
16. Remove the 3 10mm bolts holding the plastic inspection covers over the starter and flex plate.
17. Remove the 2 15mm bolts holding the starter to the motor
18. Remove and reinstall (once wiring is off) the 8mm nut and 13mm nut holding the wires to the starter. Might be good to zip tie the wires from the 13mm nut together so you can't confuse the black one with a ground on reassembly.
19. On the front of the oil pan is the oil level sensor. Turn if necessary to see a gap in it. Use your pick to push frm the oil pan outward in that gap. There is a connector and it's clipped, but you likely can't see it under the grime.
20. Remove the two 15mm bolts holding the AC compressor to the bracket in the rear. Push it off the front studs and allow it lay on the front subframe member.
21. Turn the engine with your screwdriver through the inspection area via the teeth of the flexplate to see the torque converter bolts. Remove the three 18mm TC bolts holding the flex with your screwdriver. Optionally a helper turning the harmonic balancer bolt and holding it for you can eliminate the screwdriver. Who has a helper though?

Under rear of engine:
13mm or 15mm socket and long extension. Ideally you have Snap on Deep ball pivot sockets.
22. Remove the two exhaust manifold to dowpipe nuts.

Front top (drivers side)
23. Look at the bolts holding the transmission to motor. At the bottom most front position is the bolt/stud holding the negative battery cable. Remove the 15mm nut holding the cable/grounds. Remove the grounds, then with an 18mm remove that bolt.
24. flop the wiring harness to the passenger side, off the motor. Position your hoist in place, hook up and lightly take the slack out of the chains.
25. Take the remaining 3 18mm bolts out of the transmission to engine.
26. Position a floor jack under the passenger end of the transmission tail shaft. Kiss the bottom of it to support it when the engine is out.
27. Wiggle motor loose and start to lift. Disconnect your hood struts at the hood and prop the hood open for a moment. Pull engine. Reconnect struts.

Bang...3:01... I'm out for the day.
 
the next question is how long does all this take bill to remove, 30 minutes or 1 hour lol, nice write up bill, you rule for sure.
 
scottydoggs said:
the next question is how long does all this take bill to remove, 30 minutes or 1 hour lol, nice write up bill, you rule for sure.
Click to expand...

Bill and I pulled an engine and trans in just about 2 and a half hours... he said it wouldn't have taken so long if he was by himself. :th_jester:
 


SnowFlake said:
Bill and I pulled an engine and trans in just about 2 and a half hours... he said it wouldn't have taken so long if he was by himself. :th_jester:
Click to expand...


thats what happens when you got someone to talk with and drink with i guess, slows down the whole job.

i pulled my 70 firebird engine in about a hour and a half back in the day, but lets face it theres a lot more to deal with with newer cars, and these cars have a lot more tight places to get to vs a 70 firebird.
 
When you do it enough..it's relatively easy. The other night I sat Len's motor and trans into the car in about 20 minutes or less. Car was clean, motor and trans were prepped to go in (at LIM and no accessories). Pushed the car in..brought the motor into the bay and tilted the trans do the ground with the leveler. Down it all went, leveled back out and sat right on the mounts. The longest amount of time is walking around it looking to ensure nothing gets caught or has an issue.

Frequently having a second person like Snowflake who doesn't know the 3800 that well and doesn't know the exact location of each one of my favorite tools will slow me down.

The other night, WOTGTP's car arrived on the flatbed at 6:15pm. At 9:30 when Intrigue98 left all we needed was to fill it up and put the tires on. Max knows the garage and tools well, plus he's worked on a lot of stuff with me and understands the lingo I toss at him. WOT aka Ed, Max and I .. about 3.5 hours on our backs. Kinda funny what I sent them after on the car, some fo the stuff was easy and some was to move out of the way. Had Ed under the car for close to an hour. BTW...I was pretty darn sick and coughing my guts out. No excuses...we zipped it out.
 
Very useful Info there, but I'm not a mechanic. I'm unsure of what some of the abreveations given are. Any help please.
 
Thank you, Bill! It took me a hell of a lot longer than a couple hours, but using these directions and a little creativity I was able to pull my first engine over the weekend from the local yard. I ended up getting it out of a 2001 Buick LeSabre, so I'm sure I'll have some stuff to swap over, but it was amazingly satisfying to pull my own engine. Not to mention absurdly inexpensive...

Next up will be removing the bad engine from my car, and I'll be using these instructions and documenting that process very carefully, hopefully to turn this into a walkthrough with pictures showing where all the bolts and stuff are, exactly. Look for that to come in the next few weeks, when I can get back to this.

Once again - thanks to everyone who has provided information on this board! I couldn't have done this without you.
 
GaBear said:
Very useful Info there, but I'm not a mechanic. I'm unsure of what some of the abreveations given are. Any help please.
Click to expand...

Please post which ones you are unsure of and we'll fill in the info.

Bolt locations. You mean like the trans to engine bolts, the backwards bolt? Let's walk right in to see it. These pics are w/o bolt in, so you see a silver dot.
IMG_1672.jpg

IMG_1675.jpg

IMG_1674.jpg

IMG_1673.jpg


Without the car in the way.
Backwards (1 bolt 18mm)
IMG_5516.jpg


Regulars (4 bolts 18mm) Note, the 2 o'clock position is a dowel pin only, no bolt.
IMG_5455.jpg


Diff to engine bracket (4 bolts 13mm)
IMG_5451.jpg

IMG_5452.jpg
 


Valhad said:
Damnit Bill! You're not gonna leave anything for me to contribute! ;)
Click to expand...

I told ya I did that quick on the way out of work. Not that I didn't have pictures of nearly everything. Show me a picture of a bolt /nut from the car in the Test BillBoost thread and you'll understand just how many times I've been under the car.

You could take pics of the motor mount to subframe nuts/stud location. I'm pretty sure I'm missing those. All the tough ones though..got that. :D
 
Thanks to everyone for all the advice. I did end up making it to a local yard during a sale, and while I'd rather not admit how long it took me, I walked out with an engine, spare alt, and spare starter, for $175.

When I have time to start doing the actual swap, I'll take pretty pictures of everything to go along with the steps Bill already laid out. I know you've already got them, Bill, but I want to do *something*... :)

I ended up getting the engine out of an '01 LeSabre - while I'm expecting to just put the two engines next to each other and swap what looks different, anyone care to let me know what to expect to have to change to get this into my '01 GT?
 
I just finally completed my swap, and have the new engine running - thanks again, Bill!

The only thing I noticed that doesn't seem to be in your instructions is that in the "under rear of engine" section, if you're sticking with a stock-ish setup you also need to disconnect the rear O2 sensor (the connector you want is at the rear of the heat shield over the catalytic converter), and work that sensor and wire out through/around the heat shield.

Valhad
 
Val..I leave the wiring harness in the car. That way you don't have to pull anything wiring related. Just unhook it from the motor. It may seem daunting to a newer car guy, but all the connectors really only go one place and having been loomed and laying in that one place for a long time, they appear to go right back in place to their correct item
 


I wish I could find a spare garage so I could finally do my engine swap. The car has been sitting far too Long and I need to get it moving. Is there such a thing as renting a garage stall?
 
Very few places do, but yeah. It's possible. Or find a buddy and explain that you will work your self to death until it's done.
 
BillBoost37 said:
Val..I leave the wiring harness in the car. That way you don't have to pull anything wiring related. Just unhook it from the motor. It may seem daunting to a newer car guy, but all the connectors really only go one place and having been loomed and laying in that one place for a long time, they appear to go right back in place to their correct item
Click to expand...

Clearly I'm still missing something about how this is done. :) I left my wiring harness in the car, but I couldn't find any way to flop the harness adequately out of the way with that O2 sensor still connected. Once I'd disconnected it, I had lots of play and could flop it forward over the front bumper. Pretty sure I got it all re-routed right - or close. The rear knock sensor extension harness seemed way longer than it needed to be, but I just zip-tied it out of the way.

GaBear - I know the feeling. I don't have a garage of my own right now either, and all my friends live 2+ hours away. The only way I could make this work was to beg one of them to let me use his place, and drive up there in our other car to work on the GP on the weekends. It figures that the friend who was willing to let me use his garage has a tiny space, too, so I couldn't even get the whole car into his garage. So... now the engine is in, but I've got collateral damage I've got to deal with that resulted from having to roll the car in and out of the garage with no way to support the trans while the engine was out. :th_doh:
Thankfully, Bill's already got a write-up on how to pull an axle, so I'll be on to that next.
 
Nice! I have to do an engine swap on my 2003 GT this weekend. I would say thats great timing for this thread lol :th_winking:
 
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