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Different V6's and their power question

fireprix

fireprix

New member
So this is more of an engineering type question, and might be 'duh' to some people, but I don't know the answer--- but i've been thinking about it since I was annihilated by a 2012 Camry that was stock, didn't realize they put out as much power as they do, and out of a 3.5L engine. Camry is a big fat car, how/why is that engine making so much more power, and getting the same if not better gas mileage. Ok technology is newer, I get it. What's the restrictions in our engine build that keeps it under-performing? Is there a way to overcome it? I'm assuming no--but why?
 


It's from a different time. The boosted motors aren't that bad these days, but the N/A ones are really just pathetic. There are 4 bangers putting out more power than L36's.
 
Well in that case I'm really surprised that people put as much into mods as they do, and that there aren't more crazy-style engine swaps like you see with--- say the fiero crowd. I love the looks and function of my car, but dammit its inefficient.
 


Everything about newer motors are so much more efficient than ours. You have things like variable valve/cam timing, much better heads, much higher compression, etc that make these new motors more efficient. The newer motors can have much hotter combustion so getting more energy out of the fuel.
 
Our block is too short, so the rods are too short, the heads are very ****ty, the intake manifold runner angle is ****ty, the stock cam is small and ****ty and its also pushrod which limits ability to produce power to GM daily driver standards namely because we dont have variable valve timing. I know pushrod VVT is available, but that was after the 3800.

So if we could get magical tall deck blocks and longer rods, larger bores to fit larger valves then have some epic LS1 style heads made they'd probably make around 250 CHP N/A in stockish form. If you went "all out" I can't see why you wouldnt hit 250-300 WHP. Assuming you had this magical block. It wouldn't be a 3800 anymore. Might as well just find a better platform if you want to make power without boost.
 
blackspike2710 said:
Originally designed in the 60's if I remember correctly.
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Buick 215 V8 turned into fireball V6, which was odd fire.

Then there was the even fire V6.

Then there was the series I which was the first major overhaul.

Then there was the series II which was the final major overhaul.

By that point, everything had changed.

Its like saying the LS1 had its roots in the 50's.

Sure it did, but its entirely different from the first two gens of small block chevs.
 
If the turbo goes on those newer 4cyl engines the owner will find out just how underpowered their cars are. I will keep my engine that has 50 years of development and 25 million produced to enure its rock solid.
 


fireprix said:
So this is more of an engineering type question, and might be 'duh' to some people, but I don't know the answer--- but i've been thinking about it since I was annihilated by a 2012 Camry that was stock, didn't realize they put out as much power as they do, and out of a 3.5L engine. Camry is a big fat car, how/why is that engine making so much more power, and getting the same if not better gas mileage. Ok technology is newer, I get it. What's the restrictions in our engine build that keeps it under-performing? Is there a way to overcome it? I'm assuming no--but why?
Click to expand...

The v6 motors you're talking about aren't anything that crazy... DOHC, VVT, dual plane intakes, etc... all this stuff has been around for a very long time. GM just decided to go with a less complicated approach. The newer Camry's make ~270hp, up about 30hp from an all stock L67. They make their power at a much higher RPM as well. GM could have easily dropped a 300hp L67 but for whatever reason they didn't. Our motors are bottled up pretty good. Add headers, a better intake, and a tune and you'll pick up ~40hp. Add those same mods to the Camry and it'll be lucky to gain half of that.

As for the L26/L36... well GM was just being lazy. They just kept dropping the motor into new cars despite being behind the curve. The new GM v6s aren't bad though.
 


blueguy91 said:
Why?

You can build a 3800 for a quarter of the cost of these N/A 300+ WHP V6's.
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Yea, on top of what you already paid for your car, and its still fwd/auto. Because if you go there....yea just buy a new one. unless you LURVE your kar.

I agree GM was being lazy with the 04+. Complete redesign of the exterior, then just slap a III in stead of II and recast some of the same crap with better materials when the motor should have been updated as well. Though I'm sure the G8 was already being planned at that point to kill it off and they were just trying to refresh the GP for a few extra years. Then dumped all their extra money from there into the VIBE!!
 
keep in mind most cars today are rated 10-30 bhp higher than what they actualy make. and our v6's are torque monsters, like someone said earlier the newer cars top us about 30bhp but at a high rpm, we make our power low, well usable power lol. what they need is a high liter (3.8-4.0) DOHC v6 with VVT aimed at low end power, boost that and play with 300+ chp
 
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