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Brainstorming: Crazy Talk?

Wrongwayislost77

Wrongwayislost77

New member
Looking at cam choices for the L36 (and top-swap), I compared the ER Rockers and ZZP GT2 to a few other options... And actually, the VS cam is looking pretty decent for an N/A motor!

Tell me what you guys think; I am considering a mild cam with LS6's or maybe Crow 105's (since this is a DD and I don't want to rev it past about 6200.) The plan is to cam it when I top-swap. But if get a baseline, then valvetrain swap only, then top-swap, I can look at what it does to the N/A motor.
Sure it'll cost me some money in gaskets, and time to tear it down a second time, but I'm super curious.

I got this idea from seeing the spectacular results of a local's stock-heads LS1 here. Am I crazy, trying to re-invent the wheel, or does the bigger intake lift/ longer exhaust duration cam recipe actually work on multiple platforms?

VS Cam:
206°/216° @ .050"
.512"/.507" @ valve
115 LSA

ZZP GT2 Cam:
216°/216° @ .050
.507"/.507" @ valve
111 LSA

ER Rockers:
~182°/~192° @ .050"
.477"/.464 @ valve
115 LSA

Stock Cam:
182°/192° @ .050"
.413"/413" @ valve
115 LSA

There's a good chart in this informative article on the effects of cam LSA here.

Discuss. :th_winking:
 


Discuss?

If your gonna DD it...and you want to see gains...S1X or XP are amazing blower cams for stock heads.

Set your idle speed at what...like 850-900...it'd be a very tame car. Couple either cam with a set of Crow 105's/matching retainers and a new timing chain/dampner...you'd be set for quite awhile.
 
I know these things (S1X is my first choice) but I'm just really curious. Like I said, I don't want the powerband too terriby high, and the more moderate numbers will yield a flatter, lower powerband, as well as more part-throttle response. This is kind of an idea for my dad's Intrigue, actually. He's 66, so I think it would be easier to talk him into a milder cam setup, anyway.
 
How much do you want to spend? Like my self I have a 98 GT and I have a S256 turbo Im seriously thinkin about going doing a non IC'd turbo setup for the mean time on a bone stock engine. Even a bone stock engine non IC'd should easily make more HP than a top swapped car. Besides I like the idea of not having to crack the engine open at all personally becasue I plan on tuning it myself. By the time you spend the money to throw a cam in and a few mods. Im willing to bet a bone stock engine with a turbo and no IC would make very good hp for pretty cheap. Also many people have made over 400 hp on a stock engine with an IC and rockers with a turbo. A turbo setup just leaves so much more room to grow. Just my 2 cents.

:th_angry2: << in advance becuse I can already see people whining about this post ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
We both have fairly heavy feet and as such, we are looking to avoid turbo for just the reason stated. More power. The temptation will always be there to turn up the boost, and without a viable transmission chain solution, I can't see it as a better option than the top swap for simple reliability and longevity. And the '67 is the toy anyway, these don't need to be rockets. I'm just spit-balling anyway, as mine is getting a mild setup soon and his is only getting a refresh this year.
A triangulated 4-link for the Camaro is the first priority.
 


Even so I'd rather learn how to control my foot rather than put a big dent in my wallet.

Their should be a transmission option available by the new year Id hope. Their are talks on here in the transmission section as well as on CGP about ZZP comming up with something that isnt a GMR 1" chain and their are others working on a solution too like using extend transfer case chains as long as it has a 3/8s pitch for the gears.

Not to mention if your going to do a top swap you need to add all the belt system too.
 
As far as controlling my foot goes, I would rather own something bulletproof, and enjoy some peace of mind, than always feel like i'm not getting everything out of it and babying it everywhere. In my mind any vehicle, especially a DD, should not be fragile.
As for the plan, well, the top-swap is already here, being prepped for paint. It was previously on a 12.9x Monte, so I'm going to gasket match the top-end and call it a day for now. This thread was just speculation and conjecture, as I only want something entertaining for a DD until the Camaro is where i want it and I can take on a car payment again. I wouldn't spend my time or money making a W-body a toy; just not enough fun for the money. Wrong wheel drive and piss-poor handling kinda kills it for me. As a peppy, comfortable DD though, it's a really good value.
 
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I agree but how can a turbo DD with out having to touch the engine not appealing? A turbo doesnt have to crank out 500 hp under 400 and you wont have trans problems.

Either way more than one way to build a car. So good luck and hope it turns out great. Tuning is the key for these damn things.
 
find cole (taz magester)... if i remember right he has a custom cam from PRJ and a cut out exhaust, not sure what else. he's still NA though, that's for sure. he could probably give some insight here. as for high compression build, i'll be doing a top swap/s2x build with crow 105's with stock rockers. gimme a month or so... lol
 
I'm really rooting for ZZP to come through with the chain solution.
A turbo build was the original plan, but by the time i had all the groundwork laid, the GMR's evaporated... :/
 


depends what you want to do with it. the NIC is kinda like the LL, but the LL is better by a good margin.....the XP is nothing like the other two.
 
Aren't the XP and S1x comparable? XP being the larger of the two?
The NIC is a long duration/higher overlap cam, but I didn't know the LL cam was. Interesting.
 
PRJ LL cam.....

Duration @ .050" 214º/220º
Intake Lift .305" (1.6 Rockers .488, 1.8 Rockers .549)
Exhaust Lift .285" (1.6 Rockers .456, 1.8 Rockers .513)
ICA: 113°
LSA: 114°

Low Lift indeed. Although, with all the different rockers out there, it allows you to tailor your power-band. Pretty cool.
 


I'll be able to comment firsthand on the PRJ LL in a couple weeks when my new motor goes in. I'm going to be running the stock rockers for the time being, once winter hits tho i'll probably have the heads ported and bump up to 1.8's. I bought the cam from tripleblackgp and put his youtube idle vid below. He made good #'s using it so im pretty excited to see how it feels.

PRJ LL idle vid

‪GTP PRJ LL cam idle‬‏ - YouTube
 
Stock cam number are wrong:

STOCK CAM ONLY:
115LSA
182 - 192 @ .050"
.258"\.254" AT LOBE

STOCK CAM MEASURED WITH STOCK 1.6\1.6 ROCKERS:
.413"\.407" AT LOBE

STOCK CAM WITH "ER" 1.84\1.80 ROCKERS:
.475"\.458" AT LOBE
 
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