Not yet. I was putting a 2.5 magnaflow catted X pipe onto my 1994 Mustang GT convertible exhaust which currently has BBK shorty headers and a 2.5 inch magnaflow cat back exhaust system on it already and the X pipe was the last phase of the exhaust system. I will try to get you pictures of the coolers as sson as I can. Sorry!
4T65E Hard Shift-Solution
- Thread starter jbamonte
- Start date
I shouldn't even post right now since I'll probably say something that will jinx me - so I guess I'll just knock wood where appropriate.
I finally got on to the shift kit this morning. (Didn't make it to the cooler yet - both the missus and I had places to go. I scouted strategy for it and will get onto it soon).
It really is a very straightforward thing to do. (Here is a great link with pics - not mine but I perused these as well as others: http://www.grandprixforums.net/shift_kit.php). This one is done during a rebuild with the trans out of the car.
The only part that I found difficult/annoying was getting the metal lines back in. They flop around a lot and getting all three lined back up was just annoying. It's also just weird because they don't really seat in there - they just sit in with no real positive engagement. It left me very uncertain as to whether I had it right, but there's really no other way for it to be. Given their shape and orientation they couldn't have been in any more or less or any differently. It just seems like plug and pray, but I guess they're not supposed to seal up on there tightly.
As noted, I had the Transgo shift kit. This one was $50, but it comes with a bunch of springs in addition to the spacers. If I had it to do over again I'd spring the extra $40 or so for the Thrasher kit. The biggest reason is just that:
- a) it seems to come with better instructions (the Transgo is really meant to be put in as part of a rebuild by someone who already knows what they're doing; includes more parts than you use in the 1-2 / 2-3 accumulator; and just has a diagram with pretty much no explanation)
- b) the Thrasher comes with a new accumulator gasket and new piston seals.
My piston seals were actually fine. Nary a nick or any sign of a problem. Even if I had new ones I probably would have left well enough alone. The accumulator gasket was another story. It was usable again (luckily) because all of the sealing areas were fine, but it had gotten stuck a few places around the bolts. I would not do this again without a new accumulator gasket handy.
The Transgo springs are for the underside of the pistons. For the stock springs, there are the narrow, stiff ones on top and larger diameter softer ones underneath. Transgo includes new larger diameter springs that are much firmer, and also additional springs that nest inside the larger one. Three spring go in the 2-3 side and 2 springs into the 1-2 side. This is in addition to the spacers. I actually skipped the Transgo large springs and left the stock. I only installed the smaller, nested springs. The larger ones were very very firm and I thought I'd just go a little conservative. I can always open it up again and swap them out. (The whole shift kit job took only about 2hrs - call it 3 once you're done adding/checking fluid, test driving, cleaning up, etc.)
Anyway, I buttoned it all back down, filled it up with Coastal Dex VI, and one 10oz bottle of Lubeguard red. (I have seen more than one transmission tech/rebuilder saying it is great and they use it in everything. One of its stated functions is to aid heat transfer and increase cooling. I have no idea - just going on faith).
So mouth dry and heart pounding I fired it up, put it in gear and thankfully it went. Its actually kind of strange because it doesn't really feel that different - I was sort of expecting harder shifts, but they're not. They are faster though.
Anyway I'm not going to report much for now b/c it is obviously too soon to say anything - but here is where I will knock wood anyway - today was an unseasonably hot day in Central VA. I spent a portion of the 5:00 period in a long line of stop n go traffic with 96 showing on the van's thermometer. In addition there was quite a bit of winding back road driving today. Fretted a lot ... waiting to yell "FFFFUUUUU... dge." But didn't have to... at least today. I'm knocking wood again. I'll stop back in at some point after I have some miles behind me and the cooler installed.
I finally got on to the shift kit this morning. (Didn't make it to the cooler yet - both the missus and I had places to go. I scouted strategy for it and will get onto it soon).
It really is a very straightforward thing to do. (Here is a great link with pics - not mine but I perused these as well as others: http://www.grandprixforums.net/shift_kit.php). This one is done during a rebuild with the trans out of the car.
The only part that I found difficult/annoying was getting the metal lines back in. They flop around a lot and getting all three lined back up was just annoying. It's also just weird because they don't really seat in there - they just sit in with no real positive engagement. It left me very uncertain as to whether I had it right, but there's really no other way for it to be. Given their shape and orientation they couldn't have been in any more or less or any differently. It just seems like plug and pray, but I guess they're not supposed to seal up on there tightly.
As noted, I had the Transgo shift kit. This one was $50, but it comes with a bunch of springs in addition to the spacers. If I had it to do over again I'd spring the extra $40 or so for the Thrasher kit. The biggest reason is just that:
- a) it seems to come with better instructions (the Transgo is really meant to be put in as part of a rebuild by someone who already knows what they're doing; includes more parts than you use in the 1-2 / 2-3 accumulator; and just has a diagram with pretty much no explanation)
- b) the Thrasher comes with a new accumulator gasket and new piston seals.
My piston seals were actually fine. Nary a nick or any sign of a problem. Even if I had new ones I probably would have left well enough alone. The accumulator gasket was another story. It was usable again (luckily) because all of the sealing areas were fine, but it had gotten stuck a few places around the bolts. I would not do this again without a new accumulator gasket handy.
The Transgo springs are for the underside of the pistons. For the stock springs, there are the narrow, stiff ones on top and larger diameter softer ones underneath. Transgo includes new larger diameter springs that are much firmer, and also additional springs that nest inside the larger one. Three spring go in the 2-3 side and 2 springs into the 1-2 side. This is in addition to the spacers. I actually skipped the Transgo large springs and left the stock. I only installed the smaller, nested springs. The larger ones were very very firm and I thought I'd just go a little conservative. I can always open it up again and swap them out. (The whole shift kit job took only about 2hrs - call it 3 once you're done adding/checking fluid, test driving, cleaning up, etc.)
Anyway, I buttoned it all back down, filled it up with Coastal Dex VI, and one 10oz bottle of Lubeguard red. (I have seen more than one transmission tech/rebuilder saying it is great and they use it in everything. One of its stated functions is to aid heat transfer and increase cooling. I have no idea - just going on faith).
So mouth dry and heart pounding I fired it up, put it in gear and thankfully it went. Its actually kind of strange because it doesn't really feel that different - I was sort of expecting harder shifts, but they're not. They are faster though.
Anyway I'm not going to report much for now b/c it is obviously too soon to say anything - but here is where I will knock wood anyway - today was an unseasonably hot day in Central VA. I spent a portion of the 5:00 period in a long line of stop n go traffic with 96 showing on the van's thermometer. In addition there was quite a bit of winding back road driving today. Fretted a lot ... waiting to yell "FFFFUUUUU... dge." But didn't have to... at least today. I'm knocking wood again. I'll stop back in at some point after I have some miles behind me and the cooler installed.
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harrydunn
New member
Kit is installed. Very straight-forward. Took my time and made much less of a mess than any other time I've dropped a transmission pan. :th_thumbsup-wink:
Seems to have helped my 1-2 shudder a fair amount and the shifts seem consistent now. With 8 quarts of Dex-VI and the kit with shipping, spent about $85 which is worth it to me I'd say. Also bought an inch-lb torque wrench for the 8mm and 10mm bolts. I'm always looking for good excuses to fill my tool cart with more toys. :th_winking: Debating the tranny cooler...
--Mark
Seems to have helped my 1-2 shudder a fair amount and the shifts seem consistent now. With 8 quarts of Dex-VI and the kit with shipping, spent about $85 which is worth it to me I'd say. Also bought an inch-lb torque wrench for the 8mm and 10mm bolts. I'm always looking for good excuses to fill my tool cart with more toys. :th_winking: Debating the tranny cooler...
--Mark
I am now 2,000 miles in. The van has been through plenty of all kinds of driving from around town to highway/rural highway 300 mile road trips. Much of this has been in very hot 90+ degree weather. After having the transmission act up almost every single time I drove it, it hasn't had any problem at all since installing the shift kit.
The time to install the cooler still eludes me. I just don't want to hurry it and do a hack job but I will be doing it. IMO the 2-3 shift is still a little weird sometimes, but only when hot and apparently not weird enough to trigger the code. The next time I drop the pan I'm going to put in the Transgo large 2-3 spring in place of the stock.
I'm really happy with all of this and am convinced that this is just poor GM design of this accumulator (though others might have the EPC solenoid problem).
The time to install the cooler still eludes me. I just don't want to hurry it and do a hack job but I will be doing it. IMO the 2-3 shift is still a little weird sometimes, but only when hot and apparently not weird enough to trigger the code. The next time I drop the pan I'm going to put in the Transgo large 2-3 spring in place of the stock.
I'm really happy with all of this and am convinced that this is just poor GM design of this accumulator (though others might have the EPC solenoid problem).
Pretty hot up here in NE now and with the two 18,000 GVW coolers everything has been perfect on my tranny. When I put in the ZZP shift kit, I did not use the 3/4 inch spacer for the 2-3 piston as recommended but put in the 1/2 inch spacer like in the 1-2 piston. I too occassionally get a little strange shift on the 2-3 shift when the fluid is hot but only when the A/C is not on and the fans are not operating, pulling air over the 2 coolers. With the A/C running and the fans pulling air over the coolers continuously in very hot weather, zero issues and no harsh shift at all since the installation of the shift kit and coolers. I couldn't be happier with this fix!
I intend to install the 3/4 inch spacer on the 2-3 piston at the next fluid change to speed up the shifts on this piston a little more.
I would install the cooler as soon as possible and you should be good to go.
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Hi everyone, I finally have time to update my shift kit install results, I have the time because i'm on bedrest following surgery for a burst appendix and all the fun infection that happens thereafter (and I thoght the van was being a pain!). After adding the zzp shift kit, which is just a couple of dowels that limit accumulator piston travel, (cost $40 probably cost 80 cent to make!), I am happy to report no reoccuring hard shift problems, this is after 5000 miles of hard use, high temps and frequent stop starts. i was considering a mod to turn on the cooling fans earlier to reduce temps, but decided that it would be to much hassle. I am happy with this simple temporary solution. Anyone that feels disappointed with thier GM tranny should thank their lucky stars for car enthusiasts like us, that always seeks out a better way to problem solve and believe in North American made products. All you have to do is ask anyone that has owned a Honda/Acura and is stuck literally with nothing but a steep bill to pay. I cannot thank everyone enough, that takes the time out in their day to respond to people in need in these forums. Thank you!
Hi everyone, I finally have time to update my shift kit install results, I have the time because i'm on bedrest following surgery for a burst appendix and all the fun infection that happens thereafter (and I thoght the van was being a pain!). After adding the zzp shift kit, which is just a couple of dowels that limit accumulator piston travel, (cost $40 probably cost 80 cent to make!), I am happy to report no reoccuring hard shift problems, this is after 5000 miles of hard use, high temps and frequent stop starts. i was considering a mod to turn on the cooling fans earlier to reduce temps, but decided that it would be to much hassle. I am happy with this simple temporary solution. Anyone that feels disappointed with thier GM tranny should thank their lucky stars for car enthusiasts like us, that always seeks out a better way to problem solve and believe in North American made products. All you have to do is ask anyone that has owned a Honda/Acura and is stuck literally with nothing but a steep bill to pay. I cannot thank everyone enough, that takes the time out in their day to respond to people in need in these forums. Thank you!
Glad to hear my solution has helped you but as I suggested above as with my installation, I would definitely put the biggest double stack cooler that you can fit in the grill-I decided on (2) 18,000 GVW double stack 3/4 inch coolers to work along with the ZZP shift kit-the coolers do all the transmission cooling-no radiator at all. Please read my comments previously at to why I went this route. Knowing what I know now and from experience, I would put in 1 double stack 1.5 inch thick cooler of about 28,000 GVW cooling to handle the trans fluid-that should work just fine. It has been blisteringly hot in NE and my setup works perfectly-almost 10,000 miles now on the changes. Since the A/C turns the fans on when used, the fans really aid with cooling the fluid when it is very hot. PM me if anyone has other questions. I still can't believe that someone like me with 30 years of working on cars as a hobby had to come up with this relatively simple solution for the 4T65E hard shift problem!! All the "experts" want you to change the PCS solenoid or rebuild the tranny for big money when the solution costs about $100 and is better for the tranny eliminating shift slippage AND keeps the fluid cooler which it should always have been!!
Have a look at this link: ClubGP Message Forum troubleshooting
In the first post is a link to an illustrated .pdf
Or you should be able to just click on this: http://home.pacbell.net/chris-5a/DIY_shift_kit___Filter_Fluid_change.pdf
In the first post is a link to an illustrated .pdf
Or you should be able to just click on this: http://home.pacbell.net/chris-5a/DIY_shift_kit___Filter_Fluid_change.pdf
ajscout11875
New member
yeah yeah i know its called grandprixforums.net but my 03 monte carlo ss started having the same problems two weeks ago. last sat i installed the kit and filled it with dex 6. my brother works in a dealership garage and to anyone's disbelief and to my own, they actually let me use a lift and i got the dex 6 for about 3 bucks a quart. it took about an hour to install. it took longer to try and fit the trans cooler i bought in it. its been in the mid 80's around here and my trans is running a lot better then it was. i can't say it is a perfect fix, but who am i to comlain because it only cost around 100 bucks. if you've ever changed a trans filter this is a piece of cake. if you don't want to spend 1300+ to get a new trans and would rather try to fix it for about 100 i would recommend this kit.
Like I stated previously, the weather around here has been VERY hot and the transmission still has not hardshfited once now in months of use with the ZZP towels and the 2 18,000 GVW coolers. It has been shifting perfect despite the very hot weather with the A/C running almost constantly although on a recent run at night with cooler weather and no A/C on, still no hard shift issue. There is no question that the shift kit and coolers have resolved the issue. When you look at the cost of the kit at around $30 and the double stack Long cooler for about $50 each, for me, the whole job was a little more than $100 (definitely with 1 1.5 inch double stack 28,000 GVW cooler). I don't count the Dex VI and filter since that would have to be done at some point no matter what and is a regular maintenance item either way and just insurance on any tranny regardless of this install-good insurance. My fluid has been well maintained but I plan on going back to my old transmission fluid schedule from now on with the 4T65E of about every 20,000 miles or 3 years which ever is shorter than I had been doing before the problem surfaced (please read the beginning of the thread for specifics). It appears that for everyday use the 4T65E's shortcomings are very hot running temperatures along with weak accumulator springs. Glad it worked for another poor victim of the 4T65E hard shift issue!
Pardon me for clarifying further.
Its just that I started experiencing the HardShift, or what the GM Mechanics call it as Shift Shock. They recommend that I replace the whole transmission, which is totally crazy. I told them i dont this the problem is the whole transmission just because they are lazy to look for the problem.
Well, anyway, our problem with our 2004 Chevrolet Venture (that according to most forums have this tranny as the standard model) started about 2 months ago when the following where done:
1) Re-installed the Thermostat by the Temperature sensor since this was removed 2 years ago.
2) Changed the ATF at 70,000KM, and the Transmission Filter.
They told me that the Venture normally does get the Hardshift/shiftshock after the ATF and filter gets replaced. They used, what i assumed to be a certified ATF brand.
Reading up on forums, i found that the shortterm solution would be to turn off the engine for about a minute. This method works for me everytime. BUt we do notice that the hardshift/shiftshock is happening more often than before.
We live in the Philippines, where the temperature averages at about 32C. The Temp guage would after read at the range of 90-92.5 to 100C on a hot day.
I am glad that there are forums such as these that exist for us GM consumers.
So I guess these are our problems:
Pressure Control Solenoid
Mass Airflow Sensor
That can be solved by NOT replacing the PCS and MAF sensor. But rather the installation of the 1 1.5 inch double stack 28,000 GVW cooler and the ZPP Shift Kit
May i ask for more info on the following?
What does the ZPP Shift Kit look like? Because there are the two things that came up from my browsing:
http://www.grandprixforums.net/shift_kit.php
http://www.zzperformance.com/products_img/570_1.jpg
And may i also know how to install and where in the tranny do i connect the Cooler? TRANSMISSION COOLER, 28,000 GVW, NEW: eBay Motors (item 2453082364 end time Sep-02-10 16:17:27 PDT)
Im sorry for revisiting the questions. Its just that we are so frustrated with our Minivan already because we just recently had the Driveshaft replaced, and the left lower arm, because the lowearm broke off from its welding point, thus pulling out the CVjoint. Plus countless expensive repairs like the engine electrical harness, radiator fans and aircon compressor.
Thank you so much for your assistance.
Its just that I started experiencing the HardShift, or what the GM Mechanics call it as Shift Shock. They recommend that I replace the whole transmission, which is totally crazy. I told them i dont this the problem is the whole transmission just because they are lazy to look for the problem.
Well, anyway, our problem with our 2004 Chevrolet Venture (that according to most forums have this tranny as the standard model) started about 2 months ago when the following where done:
1) Re-installed the Thermostat by the Temperature sensor since this was removed 2 years ago.
2) Changed the ATF at 70,000KM, and the Transmission Filter.
They told me that the Venture normally does get the Hardshift/shiftshock after the ATF and filter gets replaced. They used, what i assumed to be a certified ATF brand.
Reading up on forums, i found that the shortterm solution would be to turn off the engine for about a minute. This method works for me everytime. BUt we do notice that the hardshift/shiftshock is happening more often than before.
We live in the Philippines, where the temperature averages at about 32C. The Temp guage would after read at the range of 90-92.5 to 100C on a hot day.
I am glad that there are forums such as these that exist for us GM consumers.
So I guess these are our problems:
Pressure Control Solenoid
Mass Airflow Sensor
That can be solved by NOT replacing the PCS and MAF sensor. But rather the installation of the 1 1.5 inch double stack 28,000 GVW cooler and the ZPP Shift Kit
May i ask for more info on the following?
What does the ZPP Shift Kit look like? Because there are the two things that came up from my browsing:
http://www.grandprixforums.net/shift_kit.php
http://www.zzperformance.com/products_img/570_1.jpg
And may i also know how to install and where in the tranny do i connect the Cooler? TRANSMISSION COOLER, 28,000 GVW, NEW: eBay Motors (item 2453082364 end time Sep-02-10 16:17:27 PDT)
Im sorry for revisiting the questions. Its just that we are so frustrated with our Minivan already because we just recently had the Driveshaft replaced, and the left lower arm, because the lowearm broke off from its welding point, thus pulling out the CVjoint. Plus countless expensive repairs like the engine electrical harness, radiator fans and aircon compressor.
Thank you so much for your assistance.
On My 2001 GP, the trans lines are both located on the passenger side of the radiator with the bottom metal line being the inlet line and the top line coming out of the radiator being the return line to the tranny. Just cut both lines with a tube cutter where they work their way over to the radiator to inlet/outlet side about half way across the bottom of the radiator and then use the rubber hose provided, which in my case, the Long Double Stack cooler provided to by pass the 2 OEM metal lines into and out of the radiator to go to the cooler in the grill. I don't know the diameter of the metal cooler lines but used the plastic caps that came with the Long cooler to cover the inlet/outlet ports of the cooler in shipping to cover the cut metal tranny lines into and out of the cooler that were no longer being used. Hope that helps!
tdidieselbobny
New member
Where does one happen to purchase one of these ZZ performance shift kits?
I just went to an automatic transmission specialist here in the Philippines.
He recommended that we change the 1-2 and 3-4 shift Solenoid because he said that this is the most common part that gets problems. Labor here is relatively cheap (about USD60.00 equivalent). The 2 shift solenoid is about USD30 each.
I also asked him if we needed to change the (TCC) Transmission Control Circuit Solenoid and the Transmission Fluid Temp sensor, and he advised not to.
No mention of the Pressure Control Solenoid though, nor the Accumulator spacers.
What do you guys think?
Also, if we change the Shift solenoid, is it also easy to change the TCC once we remove the Shift Solenoid?
Thanks all.
He recommended that we change the 1-2 and 3-4 shift Solenoid because he said that this is the most common part that gets problems. Labor here is relatively cheap (about USD60.00 equivalent). The 2 shift solenoid is about USD30 each.
I also asked him if we needed to change the (TCC) Transmission Control Circuit Solenoid and the Transmission Fluid Temp sensor, and he advised not to.
No mention of the Pressure Control Solenoid though, nor the Accumulator spacers.
What do you guys think?
Also, if we change the Shift solenoid, is it also easy to change the TCC once we remove the Shift Solenoid?
Thanks all.
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