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3.5 to 3.4 = NOT GOOD

fri3dchick3n

fri3dchick3n

New member
Ok so I recently installed a Stage 2 Snow Performance Boost Cooler on my 99 Grand Prix GTP and dropped the pulley size to a 3.4. I got my car retuned for it and my car seems to be slower... Lol. I talked to my tuner and he said that he saw a spike of 8* of KR right away and overall REDUCED my Timing Advance and payed more attention to something he called throttle enrichment? I was thinking for sure I would be able to run a little more boost(3.4) and a little more Timing with the meth kit but I guess my car cannot handle the 3.4 just yet. I am running a 41 Methonal 59 Distilled Water mix for my spray.

My question is what would cause such a high spike of KR? On my 3.5 The most I saw at WOT was 3.5 right on the downshift but the car performed just fine so I considered it as phantom knock.
What should I try/check to try to solve this KR issue thats causing my tune to be worthless?

Here is a video of me versus an Evo 9. He is stock in this video. This is with my 3.5
Evo 9 GSR vs Grand Prix GTP - YouTube

And now all the evo has done to is so far are drop in air filter and underhood shifter bushings.
Now with my 3.4 + METH.

Heres from 35 MPH. 20130429_202204_zpsf5648e5e.mp4 Video by fri3dchick3n | Photobucket

Here is from 25 MPH. 20130429_201721_zps91d858cf.mp4 Video by fri3dchick3n | Photobucket












Yes he walked me.
 


From what I've read, it's better to run 18* of timing and a larger pulley than to run with a lot lower timing advance on a smaller pulley. The advance gives more power. And it's probably about 0.5psi difference between the two. I would run the 3.5.
 
Yea, I am running about 9* at WOT according to my Aeroforce. Which is nothing. Ive talked to my tuner and are going to retune the car with the 3.5 back on there and I am also going to replace my engine mount since it is shot to help reduce those KR numbers, false or not. It still needs to be replaced.
 
Almost exactly the same, yes... And agree, tune is an issue.

You had 3.5* of knock with the meth?

Plus why didn't tuner save what was on the PCM before flashing anything new? Tell him/her to put back what was there before, I'm sure it'll work just fine as before, but you'll need a new tuner!!! Lol...
 


9* wot?!? haha wut...holy egt's, that's bogus. you gotta get at least 16*, running the smallest pulley you can.

throttle enrichment isn't really the table you should be concerned with, the proper way is to richen/lean out is using the maf table and making small changes. Throttle enrichment is almost what you would use to make a tiny, tiny adjustment, its not the proper way to dial in a car

edit: i don't even use throttle enrichment, i leave that table alone. Also what tuner are you using? if its a dhp powertuner i can guarantee your stock tables are in there.
 
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do you have a wideband? Its almost guessing work doing it without it. Don't let him max out your injectors too
 
He said he leaned it out to 11.9. And yes I had 3.5* of KR with meth on a 3.5 untuned for it. On the down shifts though for about a second and it would disappear quickly.

He's using a brand new HP TUNER, and has owned a highly modified GTP previously. So thats why I chose him to tuned : /

Oh and no wideband.

And I have an extra PCM chillin at home if it would better.
 
fri3dchick3n said:
He said he leaned it out to 11.9.

no wideband.
Click to expand...

images
 


How much torque management is still active in the tune? Most often a small spike of KR at a downshift is torque management. GM has TM inducing KR as a method of reducing timing/power during the shift.

There's no such thing as phantom or false KR. KR is either a mechanical, electrical or tuning issue that should be fixed.
 
I'm sure that the torque management has not been touched. Should it be disabled completely?

I guess I was feeling brave trying to get a meth tune with no WB aye.

Time to look into that if I want a good tune. Hopefully won't run me too much
 
fri3dchick3n said:
I'm sure that the torque management has not been touched. Should it be disabled completely?

I guess I was feeling brave trying to get a meth tune with no WB aye.

Time to look into that if I want a good tune. Hopefully won't run me too much
Click to expand...

My tune has no TM at all, I don't think.

An AEM Wideband on Ebay costs like $160. Not to bad.
 
BillBoost37 said:
How much torque management is still active in the tune? Most often a small spike of KR at a downshift is torque management. GM has TM inducing KR as a method of reducing timing/power during the shift.

There's no such thing as phantom or false KR. KR is either a mechanical, electrical or tuning issue that should be fixed.
Click to expand...

torque management never shows as KR. Its a fact.

Water/meth injection will reduce power in every case unless you add tons of timing or boost.
 


fri3dchick3n said:
I'm sure that the torque management has not been touched. Should it be disabled completely?

I guess I was feeling brave trying to get a meth tune with no WB aye.

Time to look into that if I want a good tune. Hopefully won't run me too much
Click to expand...

Cheap/Fast/Reliable

You can only have two at any one time... Chose wisely! Lol
Seems you're already trying to skip certain steps, good luck!
: )
 
when doing overly complicated things with fueling, a wideband is the only way to go. Other than that, you can run no wideband on a non meth injected setup pretty easy.
 
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