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ABS in the winter and TC Light



I hate the trac control on these cars it's terrible, I think it's funny as soon as it rains or snows I have to turn it off so the power isn't killed to the wheels.
 
Durk Diggler said:
I hate the trac control on these cars it's terrible, I think it's funny as soon as it rains or snows I have to turn it off so the power isn't killed to the wheels.
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Funny? It probably means you should lay of the throttle when you're spinning the tires that bad.
 
TCS might be okay, but in my car, trac was so slow to act it was kinda pointless.

I corrected before trac kicked in.

Currently driving another vehicle with ESC, its quite awesome.

Get the tail to kick out a little then it just says no and fixes it for you.
 


boostedcompg said:
So what your saying is...the computer that's meant to help you..helped you? Fancy that :)
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Indeed. It Did. Tried to Go WOT Taking off on the snow/ice pack and It would rev up, Spin for a second and then the TCU would would pull Ignition timing/Limit the RPM's down till it Acquired traction and kept it regardless of how far I mashed the pedal.

And No, I dont do that from every stop. Just to see how the TCS would work.
 
I must say that when you're stuck in mud up past the edge of the rim it does in fact help to turn off traction control (ask me how I know :p ). Other than that one instance though I have yet to turn off trac when dealing with snow/ice/rain or whatever. Perhaps in instances when you want direct acceleratory control of the front wheels with no power loss (i.e. stuck in mud and racing) it would be better with trac off but I'd say for the most part it's best left on.
 
Well since no one believes me i've come to the conclusion that i'm going to do the following. Make a video so you guys can see. That's pretty much the only way i can go about it.

I'm going to do 3 videos for it to count i guess,
Video 1: Traction control off with ABS fuse IN
Video 2: Traction control on with the ABS fuse in
Video 3: ABS fuse out which disables the TC anyways as well as the ABS

then show the results. All from the same speeds obviously, say 30 or 40 mph, you guys can chose that. I'll have to have the girlfriend video as i won't be able to do it.

I'll have to wait till it snows again since it hasn't snowed again since that night yet, and most of the snow is gone now. We're having an extremely mild winter for whatever reason, im ****ing sad, because my STi is jealous of the ZERO drifting action.
 


boostedcompg said:
If there's no wall of snow you owe me money
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How fast were you going dude? And not all snow conditions are the same. It's based on the premise that it's supposed to do that and the abs technically wouldn't hence you not locking them up, versus you locking them up and building up that snow. But i'll get out if you wish, and record any snow that might be built up just for you, even if there isn't any :p
 
FWIW I dislike ABS/TC. I don't pull the fuse to disable it, but I do give it more time to pull out into traffic and expect longer stopping distance than I can typically achieve without it. Reason why is ...I don't slam on the brakes and expect the best from the system. I stop reasonably and have driven tons of stuff w/o it. Therefore I understand what the vehicle is typically going to do. Being a 2000 my Regal has no stability control and only does it's best to keep the wheels from locking/spinning. The system can't see the road/conditions and can't plan to dodge items in the way. This is where a human "can" be better than such a basic system.

Most people though don't have a clue how to drive w/o these crutches and use them fully. To me it's like not having a rearview mirror on the window. Some people can't drive w/o it. Me..I realize I can use my side mirrors and if there is no obstruction in the rear seat etc, I can turn my head.

Nick..I find your comments funny, not because you are wrong or right. But the conviction you use. Meanwhile you tune differently than most guys and argued with proven veterans that your way was better. Different isn't always totally wrong,
 


i dont see how snow piling up in front of your tires will stop you faster....and with all that snow and the tires obviously locked up, you now have zero control of the car. ( if your tires aren't spinning you have just lost control of the car)

abs is not meant to pushed to the floor, if you do that you will never stop in time. once it kicks in, let off the brake, reapply them softly and they should not lock on you.

i speak from over 20 years of driving in the snow, with cars and plow trucks. (with and with out abs) in holy chit episodes i have dropped the plow and threw in reverse and floored it to stop in time, not recommended but you do what you must do at times. only time i ever hit someone in the snow was when my brake line blew.

in the old days you would pump the brakes which simulates abs. all abs does is allow you to steer around something, not stop you any faster, ( in snow) if that's what you think abs is all about you are so wrong. leave your abs alone, and don't stab the pedal to the floor.
 
boostedcompg said:
About 3 inchs of fresh snow
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yeah we had packed snow already about 3 to 5 inches of it, on top of the snow that was already snowing. If you can still see concrete, then there'd be no reason to take it the fuse out, i'll go with you on that one that one. It's when you're stopping on packed snow, more than just fresh snow.

scottydoggs said:
i dont see how snow piling up in front of your tires will stop you faster....and with all that snow and the tires obviously locked up, you now have zero control of the car. ( if your tires aren't spinning you have just lost control of the car)

abs is not meant to pushed to the floor, if you do that you will never stop in time. once it kicks in, let off the brake, reapply them softly and they should not lock on you.

i speak from over 20 years of driving in the snow, with cars and plow trucks. (with and with out abs) in holy chit episodes i have dropped the plow and threw in reverse and floored it to stop in time, not recommended but you do what you must do at times. only time i ever hit someone in the snow was when my brake line blew.

in the old days you would pump the brakes which simulates abs. all abs does is allow you to steer around something, not stop you any faster, ( in snow) if that's what you think abs is all about you are so wrong. leave your abs alone, and don't stab the pedal to the floor.
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So you don't don't see how snow building up in front of your tires can stop your car? Seriously? it works likes this, when your is stopping without the ABS on, it's pushing the snow in front of the locked tire, gathering more, because the tire is locked and not moving, and running over it, thus creating a type of snowball effect, and pushing more and more snow in front of it causing if you will a snow back up, or a wall of snow that your tire is effectively digging into, to cause it to stop faster than the ABS which just grabs, lets go, grabs lets go, grabs, lets go, thus stopping you faster in a dead stop situation.

I really don't know why it's such a hard concept for everyone to grasp. Maybe because it's never been suggested here before, and i can very well understand that, but us Subaru guys have been doing it for years! Although our ABS system doesn't work like you guys, taking out our fuse, only disables the ABS and nothing else. With these cars i can understand some of the other repercussions of doing it, but the theory of why it works is universally the same. I guess i just don't grasp how some of you can't understand it that's all. Not saying it's right or wrong either way, just saying, keep it in mind in the deep and packed snow that it does stop you faster, and it is snowing outside right now, when we get enough snow, im going to take video and show you all how it works.
 
Imprecise number o'clock: Calling engineers and math freaks: I barely remember this, so plz to help meh.
Locking up wheels: So, we're looking at ~580kg from ~13m/s to 0m/s perched atop 4 patches of rubber ~20cm wide each (80cm total) trying to build up enough snow in front to measurably slow the vehicle.

Force = Mass * acceleration... 580kg * 13m/s^2 = 567N ...right? Um, so that's the forward force. I think.
Um, so mu = friction force / Force... Shoot, I think I'm doing this wrong. Someone smart step in and learn us. We have smart people, right? I seem to remember a lot of you cats claiming to be engineer students, anyway.
 
Simply enough. Snow is Frozen water particles. Compress them and you create a Snow pack. Which has a tighter molecular bond. Which in turn would make the vehicle slide further. Packed snow=Slick.
 
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