Down With Bush

[Reptile]

Come on BigG, tell us how you really feel.

 

[archemedes]

Come on BigG, tell us how you really feel.

that's what I was about to say lol

 

[Reptile]

We need a group hug.

 

[BigG]

Come on BigG, tell us how you really feel.

How can any body, with a triple digit IQ, seriously defend Bush? :th_angry-censored: BTW..how did he get elected two times? OK...one time, the second time. The guys had only, sycophants, an toadies, as advisor's,an appointees. We've all seen how well they've done.(disasters) If he's just a guy trying to do his best; why has his whole term been nothing but ****ups, an lies? He knew he was lying about the
WMD's; any body that thinks different, is intellectually impaired.(read-moron):th_coocoo: People that try to defend this guy; is like, some one trying to tell me that water isn't wet. i sincerely hope, some where down the line, that bush is indited on numerous criminal, an traitorous charges. Ok, rants over.:th_biggrin1:

 

[webracin]

HAHAHAHA.....well BigG all I can say is WOW. I dont want to defend Bush since there are quite a few things that I dont agree with either, however there are alot of people on the anti Bush band wagon and choose to blame him for everything that is wrong with the country right now. Lets lay the blame where it belongs. Contrary to popular belief, the president does not control the gas prices, nor does he have the ability to declare war on another country, and he and his cabinet didnt get into this position by themselves.

I think we can all agree that Washington is full of crooks, and congress is full of lawyers and every one of them are politicians so that makes them all liars.

You may not agree with how we got into the war, but I think most of you dont want to go back. The troop surge is working so let the military do what it was trained to do, and lets not let congress (who only gets training from special interest groups) screw it up.

webracin

 

[SyntheticShield]

First, IF Mr. Bush did lie, then all of the Senate went along with it. They saw all the same intelligence reports, all the information Mr. Bush saw and after several closed door sessions they too apparently were either swayed by Mr. Bush's story and just totally disregarded all the intelligence reports or they too participated in the lie. People seem to think he just snapped his fingers and we went to war based on his say so and for the life of me I cannot figure out why people totally disregard that it took a vote of congress to get into this war.

Secondly how can water be truly wet? How can something made up of two gases be truly wet?

 

[GeddyLee]

First, IF Mr. Bush did lie, then all of the Senate went along with it. They saw all the same intelligence reports, all the information Mr. Bush saw and after several closed door sessions they too apparently were either swayed by Mr. Bush's story and just totally disregarded all the intelligence reports or they too participated in the lie. People seem to think he just snapped his fingers and we went to war based on his say so and for the life of me I cannot figure out why people totally disregard that it took a vote of congress to get into this war.

Secondly how can water be truly wet? How can something made up of two gases be truly wet?

^^^^^ Agreed with 10x over!!!

I think all of House and the Senate should impeach themselves! Like Syn said. Its not like Bush put a gun to each of their heads and MADE them do it. Everyone has a choice and most of House and Senate were for it. Granted emotions were high after 9/11, but that is the cost of the human element. You take that out of the equation, we are just like Russia or some other totalitarian* dictatorship.

We as humans, politicians and alike make mistakes or misjudge things, but does it make it right to rest the blame on one person? NO! As I said before in a prior post, Bush has to get approval from both the House and Senate in any action he takes. He just doesnt wave his magic wand and things just happen. People just like to conveniently forget those SMALL details. They would rather just point the finger at one person. Heaven forbid they look at themselves as part of the problem.

 

[archemedes]

^^^^^ Agreed with 10x over!!!

I think all of House and the Senate should impeach themselves! Like Syn said. Its not like Bush put a gun to each of their heads and MADE them do it. Everyone has a choice and most of House and Senate were for it. Granted emotions were high after 9/11, but that is the cost of the human element. You take that out of the equation, we are just like Russia or some other totalitarian* dictatorship.

We as humans, politicians and alike make mistakes or misjudge things, but does it make it right to rest the blame on one person? NO! As I said before in a prior post, Bush has to get approval from both the House and Senate in any action he takes. He just doesnt wave his magic wand and things just happen. People just like to conveniently forget those SMALL details. They would rather just point the finger at one person. Heaven forbid they look at themselves as part of the problem.

which is why I say kill all teh politicians, they are all to blame for everything

 

[SyntheticShield]

which is why I say kill all teh politicians, they are all to blame for everything

While I can understand that sentiment, its not really them to be blamed, its us. We voted them in there. When we start scrutinizing our leader BEFORE we vote them in office then things will get better. Ive said it before and I'll say it again, we put the local fast food employee through more of a background check than we do the ones we vote into office.

Perhaps we should require them to all fill out an employment form, check their references, check their background and so on PRIOR to voting for them. The problem is that most take the attitude if it doesnt affect me then its okay and so we give our approval by the shear fact of inaction and apathy.

 

[archemedes]

I think our biggest issue with elections is, the only people who can afford to run are the ones we don't really want in office, you can't have a regular guy run for any major office anymore. You get people voting for as Rush said (not that I like him, but the quote was good) you pick the guy you hate the least

 

[SyntheticShield]

Thats something, then, we need to work on. The system needs to change. Anyone can run that meets the constitutional requirements (which are pretty basic) its getting yourself out there and noticed that gets expensive. There is public funding available but its not to the point it can compete with private donations.

But again, that kinda falls on us to start sending the message that whats important to us is ethics, values, qualifications, etc., not popularity and who is raising the most money. It will take work, A LOT of work but it can be done but it has to first start with the voters setting the standard. Im not saying that having a lot of money available to your campaign is bad, but perhaps we should try something along the lines of you get so much money and thats it. No loop holes, no work arounds, etc. You get x amount of dollars to run your campaign and then your done so spend it wisely.

I actually think that would help teach the candidates some fiscal responsibility which would hopefully show them that they can do a lot more with a trillion dollar budget without them having to make the first option of overcoming shortfalls a tax increase.

I just have never grasped that process of trying to take more money from the people to make up for budget shortfalls. Lets take MORE money from the people so they have less to spend, yeah, that will fix the economy. Here's a novel idea, how about you do what most families have to do and sit down and budget every month. You got so much income, keep expenses below that point, lets try that for once.
http://www.grandprixforums.net/f37/

 

[archemedes]

I alwys tell people I can deal with taxes as long as they are used to help the people, and not give tax breaks to the rich (who can afford to pay taxes) it takes money to run the country, but we have too many expenses that make no sense. I also think the media has us brainwashed into thinking one person is better than another. Is it just me or are the American people starting to look like lemmings heading toward the cliff?

 

[GeddyLee]

Syn, you say we put those people into their political seats, but the ones in there now, I did not vote for! I voted for Bush YES! And I would do it again in a heartbeat over some schlube like Kerry. It is kind of funny how you see Baaaaabbbaaarack flip flopping on issues now. Ala Kerry. Gives me a good chuckle indeed! And he has the nerve to blame the media. If that is truly case? Its his own Democratically control media that is doing him in. Its not like its only the Shawn Hannity's and Rush's of the airwaves doing it to him. Its his own "democratic" people doing it to him.

While I am not a huge fan of McCain, I will vote for him cause i simply dont want someone like Baaaabaaaarack in there. NOT cause of his skin color, but simply because of what he stands for. Democrats love to push and toute* new programs that will help Americans supposidly, but EVERYONE, well at least Democratic voters, tend forget someone has to pay for these "wonderful" programs. And that someone is US! We will see our taxes double till we are blue in the face. And here we think the gas prices are bad? Just wait till someone like him gets into office.

We would be done for!

 

[SyntheticShield]

Syn, you say we put those people into their political seats, but the ones in there now, I did not vote for!

Well if that is due to just not voting, then that is the same as putting them in there. We have the right and responsibility to vote. And just because a candidate is not on the ballot does not mean we cannot vote for them and get them in office.

If its because you did vote and your candidate of choice just didnt win the election, then it still falls on us to make sure that the elected officials, whomever they may be, understand that they are an employee of the American people and that they are there at our request to help us and represent our interests, not political action commitees, special interests, book deals and all that.

Again it takes work, a lot of work, but it can be done.

 

[webracin]

I would love to run for public office, but like you have said, it cost alot for name recognition. Not only that, it takes alot more than one man or woman to make the change.

If there is one thing I would like to get across to everyone, its this:

Dont listen to what the candidates are promising, because they cant do it by themselves. You will have to vote in people with the same ideas in order to effect change.

If you want to vote for me here is my stance:

15% flat tax (you make a 1.00 or a million does not matter) no deductions, no tax credits. Simple and easy one page tax code. If you make a profit, pay your 15%

Re-enact the WPA program.....basically if you get an check from the goverment for unemployment, you must work 20 hours in your community to collect that check....anything from baby sitting to building sidewalks, to picking up trash to working in community clinics.

If you like that, I will see what more I can come up with.

webracin

 

[SyntheticShield]

I have ALWAYS been in favor of the flat tax rate. It would, in fact, save money as the IRS would not have be the big agency that it is to track a simple flat tax rate. Though you mention making a profit and paying 15%. Personally, I dont thing the government has any business in my personal dealings. If I decide to sell a bunch of stuff on eBay, then I should be able to do so without having to pay taxes on top of it.

If they are going to take money from my paycheck before I even see it, then their hands need be no where else in my life with regards to taxes.

I often tell people that God lead some 2 million Israelites out of Egypt and that community was supported on a 10% tithe and here our own government cannot make ends meet with 20 - 30% or more tax rate. We pay federal, and in some stated (OK being one of them) you pay state taxes, then Social Security. Then you go buy something and you have to pay taxes on that. Invest money and make a profit, more taxes. Sell something, more taxes. Even when you die, more taxes.

I thoroughly believe the government, state or federal, has no business taxing necessities like food and clothing.

I'll get off my soap box before I get out of hand. I dont mind paying taxes, what I do mind is that we pay what we do and they still want more. It really ticks me off that instead of seeing where they can cut costs or save money, their first thought instead is lets raise taxes and people go along with it. I wish that instead of seeing where I can save money or cut costs I could just go to my employer and say I need more money, I have a Grand Prix project underway.

I like your other idea too Chris, stop the free hand outs. In most cases there are better ways. There are some that just couldnt do that, but the majority should be able to get out there and do something.

 

[GTPJOE90]

I have ALWAYS been in favor of the flat tax rate. It would, in fact, save money as the IRS would not have be the big agency that it is to track a simple flat tax rate. Though you mention making a profit and paying 15%. Personally, I dont thing the government has any business in my personal dealings. If I decide to sell a bunch of stuff on eBay, then I should be able to do so without having to pay taxes on top of it.

If they are going to take money from my paycheck before I even see it, then their hands need be no where else in my life with regards to taxes.

I often tell people that God lead some 2 million Israelites out of Egypt and that community was supported on a 10% tithe and here our own government cannot make ends meet with 20 - 30% or more tax rate. We pay federal, and in some stated (OK being one of them) you pay state taxes, then Social Security. Then you go buy something and you have to pay taxes on that. Invest money and make a profit, more taxes. Sell something, more taxes. Even when you die, more taxes.

I thoroughly believe the government, state or federal, has no business taxing necessities like food and clothing.

I'll get off my soap box before I get out of hand. I dont mind paying taxes, what I do mind is that we pay what we do and they still want more. It really ticks me off that instead of seeing where they can cut costs or save money, their first thought instead is lets raise taxes and people go along with it. I wish that instead of seeing where I can save money or cut costs I could just go to my employer and say I need more money, I have a Grand Prix project underway.

I like your other idea too Chris, stop the free hand outs. In most cases there are better ways. There are some that just couldnt do that, but the majority should be able to get out there and do something.

I DEF AGREE!

 

[archemedes]

it is frightening to me how we can have a political discussion here, and nobody is getting bent out of shape. I am very impressed with everyone here

 

[SyntheticShield]

Me too, but that really speaks to the quality, maturity and patience of this community. It is indeed VERY nice to have such a discussion and not having everyone get so bent out of shape. These are the type of discussions that are productive and make you consider everyones view point and while I have my opinions and am usually pretty vocal about them, its discussions this civil that make me take stock of my opinion in light and context of what everyone else has to say.

Good job everyone, you should be proud of yourselves.

 

[BigG]

it is frightening to me how we can have a political discussion here, and nobody is getting bent out of shape. I am very impressed with everyone here

I wouldn't say frightening, no. Not too unusual, for this board, is it? Or, was that a rhetorical question?:th_scratchhead::th_biggrin2: