What pulley and plugs to get??

[TDCRacing]

I was wondering what pulley and plugs to get(thinking of the autolite 130 racing).And was wondering if i could go as small as a 3.3?

Car:1999 gtp

Mods: /2.5 ZZP Down pipe/jmb 4'' fwi with k&n/160 drilled t-stat/plog and possibly rear ported manifold/Wrapped crossover/HP Tuners/


Close to a dhp 1.0 tune on there now. TIA:th_winking:

 

[02BlueGT]

more commonly would be a 3.4m but I would suggest a 3.5 and tuning before smaller sizes

 

[IndeedSS]

A3.5 pulley would be a lot less risky, especially for your mod list and a 180* tstat better for your engine.

Edit for plug opinion - AL 605's gapped at .055. They are one step colder than stock and again for you mods, should be fine. IMO 104's would be too cold.

 

[Going Too Phast]

I concur with the above posts. As it sits, 3.5 pulley max and Autolite 605 plugs. You will want more mods for a 3.4. You will make more power and the engine will be safer if you are conservative with pulley size. Even with zero KR the hp difference between a 3.5 and a 3.4 is like 5hp? You can't even feel that, and that is IF you had no KR with both which is unlikely. Better safe than sorry IMO.

 

[TDCRacing]

I was hoping that i could get the 3.4 at least.I heard that most people use the 103's what is the difference between the 605's and the 103's?? I was under the impression that the 103's were 1 heat range colder than stock.I dont want my plugs to be a fix for my uncontrollable kr(if that were the case) but i would like to go to the ''max'' so to speak as far as the ''coldness'' of the plug without entering that range. someone explain how to cold is hurting me because i dont quite understand it...i know they make ngk's that are i think 4 heat ranges colder than stock so when would be an exceptable time to use something like that??.why would a 160 t-stat be to cold? Will the pcm command too rich of a fuel mixture? Could that not be fixed with the tuner? thanks everyone for the replys!!:th_thumb-up:

 

[archemedes]

the 160 t stat doesn't allow the engine to enter closed loop, and basically ignores the 02 sensors dumping fuel, and washing down the cylinders. The other issue is efficiency, the internal combustion engine uses fuel most efficient at about 195* (that is where all the NHRA cars try and leave teh starting line)

 

[t24moore]

I agree with what everyone says, dont get pulley envy. The pulley is only a small part of a bigger equation. Its great having all the extra torque due to the smaller size but it hurts in the long run. Your HP will suffer severely. A 3.5 with your mods will more than likely outperform that 3.4 pulley with the same mods because of KR. And anything sub 3.4 is out of the question without some kind of valvetrain work or IC. Trust me, i blew a HG trying to run a 3.0/Full size IC/rockers/20* of timing/and stock exhaust manis w 3 inch dp. I learned the hard expensive way, take your time and do it correctly.

 

[TDCRacing]

I learned the hard expensive way, take your time and do it correctly.

That is what i'm trying to do.And thanks to the help of you guys i think it might happen.

decided to go with the 180 drilled t-stat -thanks guys!!!


someone educate me on the spark plug question about the coldness of the plug and how it can hurt me. And also why the 605's would be better than the 103's. never heard of someone using the 605's so thats why i ask.just want to learn how it would be benefitial to me:th_thumbsup-wink:

 

[Going Too Phast]

Well it is helpful to understand the Autolite heat ranges.

606 = Stock
605 = 1 step colder and good for stock motors to ~3.5 pulley
104 = 2 steps colder and good for 3.4 to 3.2ish
103 = 3 steps colder and good for 3.1 to farther than I'll ever go

If the plugs are too cold, the plugs don't get hot enough to burn deposits off of them which will lead to misfires as they accumulate. The recommendation usually is to run the hottest plugs you can safely get away with. So your best bet is 605s. If you have one or two degrees of KR with the 605s, you could try 104s. But you can see that 103s are for more hardcore setups.

EDIT: And I always like referring to Overkill's spark plug article.
Ontario Quebec Club Grand Prix :: Which Spark Plugs Should I Run?
That will feed your need for information.

 

[TDCRacing]

ok got ya...thanks for the link.I guess so many ppl are misinformed that they do not know what is ''best''....i see so many ppl that have a 3.4 with 104's and the same mods as i listed.maybe it was ok for them but i am leaning more twards the 3.5 now.



From those of you with experience will i notice a majior difference in power (seat of you pants wise) when i wrap the crossover,180,t-stat,p-log and 3.5 pulley??


What is a good estimation of a 1/4 mile time with the above mods??Tried to bring the car to the track stock...but when i was finially able to go it rained out ...i was confident that the car did 14's stock because of the ppl i raced on the street that had gone to the track and did 15.1,15.0 (preludes) and i murdered em lol.i know it is not an accurae way of telling but it was my hopes and dreams to be in the 14's stock....so nobody ruin that lol:th_lipssealed1:

 

[FoSHO99]

14.1-14.6

Depends really, You should be fine with a 3.5 and 104's gapped right.

I think wrapping the crossover will not be a sufficient gain but you can try it. The tb gets a lot of heat from the supercharger itself. I have a tb shield from zzp and while it blocks the heat from the crossover, It seems like it gets hot from the s/c anyway.

 

[TDCRacing]

14.1-14.6

Depends really, You should be fine with a 3.5 and 104's gapped right.

I think wrapping the crossover will not be a sufficient gain but you can try it. The tb gets a lot of heat from the supercharger itself. I have a tb shield from zzp and while it blocks the heat from the crossover, It seems like it gets hot from the s/c anyway.

hey...i see you made it over here...nice to see ya again...i have actually taken the intake tubing off and felt inside of the throttlebody and it was much hotter to the touch on the bottom(by the crossover) than anywhere else...your right probably not too much of a gain but couldnt hurt i guess...i'd be pleased to be under 14.5...did anything else to your car??



anybody else??

 

[TDCRacing]

i think i will go with the 180 drilled t-stat and the 104's with the 3.5 just to let everyone know...thanks for all of the help guys

 

[jacobmh27]

so are you all saying that you can go with a 3.5" with out tuning or do you need that still. And by tuning do you mean just a reprogrammed PCM or at a shop on a Dyno. I am very new to this and I am getting a 2001 GTP in 3 weeks and am just trying to read up eveything on it. Also whould it be wise to do the pully before the Exhaust. I have a CAI for it already but the Exhaust is stock.

 

[TDCRacing]

you will have to have at least what i have before you can put a 3.5 pulley on there.minus the hp tuner...



im getting all of my stuff from zzperformance:


front stainless p-log
zzp 2.5 downpipe
180 drilled t-stat
autolite 104's (colder spark plugs)
fenderwell cold air intake

p.s. those of you with the cone filter in the engine department....you would have been better off putting your stock air box back in...did an experiment with the iat sensor on my hp tuners and with a true fwi temps were very close to ambient (+10) with driving in the city (stop and go) vs. temps up to 130+ with the cone k&n i have in there now( waiting on my jbm fwi to come in )...stock air box was close to 115 in the same stop and go conditions...yes there are lots of varibles but i had never have seen temps above 103 in 80 degree weather with the fwi...yup your getting more airflow with the cone filter under the hood but its all hot!!!

thats crazy though 130+ and it still has to go through the rest of the intake tubing and throttlebody...just imagine the actual temps past there:th_shakinghead1:



you need a scan gauge at least to check for kr (knock retard) before you start modding...just get the hp tuner and you wont regret it...trust me on this on i was able to improve the stock tune on the car to where it made a noticble difference in performance 4 sure.weigh out your options you will see for yourself...hp tuners has a scan gauge so basicly for 260.00 (240.00 for a plain scan gauge) more you will be able to tune your car yourself an unlimited number of times no matter what mods you will through at it...


also at least a reprogramed pcm from dhp or zzp or overkill is recomended with the mods listed above(pssst get the hp tuner)...and overkill uses hp tuners to program and sell his own pcm's....any questions feel free to ask...this is the best 3800 fourm around...and best thing is it's very new and still improving...welcome aboard

 

[TDCRacing]

so are you all saying that you can go with a 3.5" with out tuning or do you need that still. And by tuning do you mean just a reprogrammed PCM or at a shop on a Dyno. .

with the above mods it has been done before 4 sure and you will have mixed answers on that question...the better question would be can i go with a 3.5 with the above mods without a tune(stock pcm) with at least a scan gauge...yes you can then check for kr and see where you are at!

when i say a tune in this case i am refering to a reprogramed pcm


And if you get the hp tuners i can give you a tune that is on my stock gtp(parts on order) that is very very close to the dhp 1.0 tune...

 

[TDCRacing]

Also whould it be wise to do the pully before the Exhaust. I have a CAI for it already but the Exhaust is stock.

no not wise to do the pulley before the exhaust...you want to do at least an off road downpipe (if emmissions allows it) that gets rid of the cat and the ubend...if not get a catted downpipe without the u-bend...it will help reduce kr by doing the exhaust first

 

[jacobmh27]

Thanks for all the replys so fast. I have been looking at all the forums up for Pontiacs and specific forums and this seem s to be the best one. THe DOwnpipe I am in CT so does anyone know if this si allowed? Also the UBend what the hell was pontiac thinking when they did that I saw some pictures of the U bent opposed to the straight piece. Why did they make it bent in the first place. I will look at getting the Exhaust first and then start doing other things. With the HP Tuner where is a good site to buy that from and is it easy to use. Also is it worth it to Buy the HP Tuner first and tune the Stock car or should I get the Exhaust first? THanks for all the help eveyone. I will be around here for a long time hopefully

 

[TDCRacing]

Thanks for all the replys so fast. I have been looking at all the forums up for Pontiacs and specific forums and this seem s to be the best one. THe DOwnpipe I am in CT so does anyone know if this si allowed? Also the UBend what the hell was pontiac thinking when they did that I saw some pictures of the U bent opposed to the straight piece. Why did they make it bent in the first place. I will look at getting the Exhaust first and then start doing other things. With the HP Tuner where is a good site to buy that from and is it easy to use. Also is it worth it to Buy the HP Tuner first and tune the Stock car or should I get the Exhaust first? THanks for all the help eveyone. I will be around here for a long time hopefully

how long have you lived in ct?? have you ever had to go for a smog test? if not then im sure it is allowed...here in ga they do not worry about emmissions

Pontiac made the u-bend to move the 02 b2 cat sensor to more of a ''safer'' place as far as ground clearence goes..


HPTuners.com >> Performance At Your Fingertips ....easy to use...short answer no....very complicated and more stuff to learn that anything you will probably ever learn in your whole life...tuning knowledge is awesome though. take a look at all the supported vehicles that you can tune with the hp tuners...it is unreal...it is not hard to put a premade tune(like the one i offered to give you) on the hp editor and flash it to your pcm as long as you know how to copy and paste!!! There is nothing you cant do with this tuner...trust me...they also have there own help fourm...look at there faq's page.more info there.


get the tuner first that is what i did then i got 180.00 zzp offroad downpipe...there are so may ppl that are out there that wish that they would have gotten the tunner instead of buying a reprogrammed one only to have to get it reflashed and spend more money when the change there mods...



as for the help....no problem that is what were here for....


check out the hpt site...you will not know what half of the ppl are talking about but hey its just something new to learn thats all....lots of good pl that are there to help you on the hpt fourm also


again, you need anything let us know

 

[t24moore]

Just remember, if you can't **** you can't eat (exhaust first). As far as the airbox is concerned it depends on the year of your car, I think the 2000+ airboxes were better than the 97-99's dont quote me on that. Myself, I use a HAI, thats the cone right off the throttle body. For me its all about airflow more than temperatures, but I do run a full size IC as well.