OK, ready a billion posts on headers. I have a 2002 GP GTP 40th and ready to go down the header path. Who makes the best headers from a fitment and durability perspective. Stainless or Ceramic coated? I have looked at SLP, ZZP, and Speed Daddy. Heard a lot of fitment issues with Speed Daddy. What say you? What else is out there?
Calling All Header Experts!
- Thread starter FlynnZero
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dezldave961
Banned
I've had the prototype version of the stainless Speed Daddy headers (SLP clone... previously called SSAC, DPP, etc.) since 2006, and couldn't be happier for spending under $200. Dyno tested with my XP/GenV/L36 block setup with a 25whp gain and ran down to 12.7 @ 111mph in street trim that year.
Speed Daddy Pro-Tips:
- Use the Torca-style clamps, and leave the flanges loose while you connect the crossover, starting with the rear header first.
- Replace the flex pipe with a ZZP one right away, and have a good welder use stainless TIG method to swap it, if you can. I actually moved the v-band clamp up to the collector, and the flex on the downpipe side of the v-band.
- wipe down before start so grime doesn't make them ugly, and re-wipe when cold occasionally to keep shiny (same for any bare Stainless header)
ZZP's are beautiful, but you'll pay 2-3x the price to have them, and they're inventory is a bit slower to restock lately. The diameter is a bit bigger, but only a big cam, 11sec/400+whp car is going to notice a tangible benefit (If I was putting my MP112 setup back in a GP/Regal/etc., I might go for them as I chased 11's/10's with it... otherwise I'd get SpeedDaddy's again in a heartbeat.)
I'd avoid mild steel ones, even coated, if possible. Coating is a nice bonus on stainless, as SLP, TOG, and some others may have offered years ago
All headers will require some tweaking of the trans dipstick, and all but ZZP's may require giving some firewall/swaybar clearance for the O2 sensor.
Speed Daddy Pro-Tips:
- Use the Torca-style clamps, and leave the flanges loose while you connect the crossover, starting with the rear header first.
- Replace the flex pipe with a ZZP one right away, and have a good welder use stainless TIG method to swap it, if you can. I actually moved the v-band clamp up to the collector, and the flex on the downpipe side of the v-band.
- wipe down before start so grime doesn't make them ugly, and re-wipe when cold occasionally to keep shiny (same for any bare Stainless header)
ZZP's are beautiful, but you'll pay 2-3x the price to have them, and they're inventory is a bit slower to restock lately. The diameter is a bit bigger, but only a big cam, 11sec/400+whp car is going to notice a tangible benefit (If I was putting my MP112 setup back in a GP/Regal/etc., I might go for them as I chased 11's/10's with it... otherwise I'd get SpeedDaddy's again in a heartbeat.)
I'd avoid mild steel ones, even coated, if possible. Coating is a nice bonus on stainless, as SLP, TOG, and some others may have offered years ago
All headers will require some tweaking of the trans dipstick, and all but ZZP's may require giving some firewall/swaybar clearance for the O2 sensor.
BrandonHall10
Solving problems
I had a set of SD's on a GTP in the past. No major complaints. My only knock against them would be the toilet drain looking section in the downpipe. It would occasionally hit things on a stock ride height car. Took some finagling to make them fit and not leak, but it can be done. Lot's of good tips in the previous post. One thing not mentioned is that you will either have to dent the tunnel to make clearance for the O2 sensor or some guys move it to the crossover pipe. Can be had for under $100 now.
FOR GRAND PRIX/GTP/REGAL/IMPALA 3.8L V6 STAINLESS RACING MANIFOLD HEADER/EXHAUST | eBay
I just ordered a set of OBX/Pacesetter knockoffs from eBay for $140. I've heard these also have fitment issues but no worse than the SD's. I have a cutoff wheel and TIG welder so I'm not too concerned. I wanted to give these a try just to know and for the better downpipe profile. They look to be mild steel so they'll probably rust. I'm going to wrap them and see what happens. I live in the desert so again, not to concerned about that. They are cheap enough, if they only last a year I'll scrap them and get some SD's.
Performance Exhaust Header 97-08 Grand Prix GTP Monte Carlo SS/Regal GS 3.8L V6 | eBay
FOR GRAND PRIX/GTP/REGAL/IMPALA 3.8L V6 STAINLESS RACING MANIFOLD HEADER/EXHAUST | eBay
I just ordered a set of OBX/Pacesetter knockoffs from eBay for $140. I've heard these also have fitment issues but no worse than the SD's. I have a cutoff wheel and TIG welder so I'm not too concerned. I wanted to give these a try just to know and for the better downpipe profile. They look to be mild steel so they'll probably rust. I'm going to wrap them and see what happens. I live in the desert so again, not to concerned about that. They are cheap enough, if they only last a year I'll scrap them and get some SD's.
Performance Exhaust Header 97-08 Grand Prix GTP Monte Carlo SS/Regal GS 3.8L V6 | eBay
dezldave961
Banned
Good notes. Ya, I buried the firewall note in my last sentence with the dipstick and swaybar note (may need to flip it with most brands), oops.
Thanks for posting those ads, BTW.
The SD downpipe was copied directly from the original SLP design, which does scrape as you're about to scrape the other low points on the car. Mine ran ~75k over 10yrs before my GTP chassis rusted out from all the winters back home, so the headers sit ready in a tote for future projects.
I've only dealt with 1 set of PaceSetters. The design was promising, but non-coated mild steel was a little scary. I know the eBay stainless knock-offs had bad crossover fit issues, dunno about the black mild steel version. Good luck.
Here's some old pics of those 2 styles, including the mock-up of PaceSetters on a spare engine to weld the downpipe and avoid rear clamp issues.
(sorry for Photobucket, I need to get my stuff off there before that site gets even worse)
Torca clamps & ZZP flex (suggested for any type): LINK
SD custom downpipe "fix" (don't know source): LINK
SD (mine) w/ new flex after 5 NY/MI/MN winters: LINK
SD front after warm-up: LINK
PS mock-up: LINK
PS welded: LINK
Thanks for posting those ads, BTW.
The SD downpipe was copied directly from the original SLP design, which does scrape as you're about to scrape the other low points on the car. Mine ran ~75k over 10yrs before my GTP chassis rusted out from all the winters back home, so the headers sit ready in a tote for future projects.
I've only dealt with 1 set of PaceSetters. The design was promising, but non-coated mild steel was a little scary. I know the eBay stainless knock-offs had bad crossover fit issues, dunno about the black mild steel version. Good luck.
Here's some old pics of those 2 styles, including the mock-up of PaceSetters on a spare engine to weld the downpipe and avoid rear clamp issues.
(sorry for Photobucket, I need to get my stuff off there before that site gets even worse)
Torca clamps & ZZP flex (suggested for any type): LINK
SD custom downpipe "fix" (don't know source): LINK
SD (mine) w/ new flex after 5 NY/MI/MN winters: LINK
SD front after warm-up: LINK
PS mock-up: LINK
PS welded: LINK
Attachments
BillBoost37
New member
I've put on all of the above for many folks. Overall I liked the install on SLP's the best. Straight forward, no mods or changes to be made. Costly though
Costwise you could do the knock offs, fix a few things and still save quite a few bucks.
ZZP's interesting to install the first time out, nice fitting overall. I'm not a fan of moving the O2 to only read the front bank of cylinders. I'd rather see it down in the pipe so you do read all 6 instead of only the front 3. However it's so darn easy to replace that O2 in the crossover piece.
Costwise you could do the knock offs, fix a few things and still save quite a few bucks.
ZZP's interesting to install the first time out, nice fitting overall. I'm not a fan of moving the O2 to only read the front bank of cylinders. I'd rather see it down in the pipe so you do read all 6 instead of only the front 3. However it's so darn easy to replace that O2 in the crossover piece.
@BillBoost37
I noticed ZZP is running out of stock on lots of items and they never have a good idea on restock. Also, ZPP headers are more expensive than SLP. I was leaning SLP, and I am glad to hear of no issues installing. I think I will go down the SLP path.
Thanks for the feedback everyone.
I noticed ZZP is running out of stock on lots of items and they never have a good idea on restock. Also, ZPP headers are more expensive than SLP. I was leaning SLP, and I am glad to hear of no issues installing. I think I will go down the SLP path.
Thanks for the feedback everyone.
BillBoost37
New member
I had SLP's on my own personal car and loved them. ZZP is likely starting to move out of the 3800 platform and letting stock dwindle because they don't sell as much. It makes sense, but for those guys looking at hopping into the platform now, it sucks.
BrandonHall10
Solving problems
The used parts market seems to have gone away also. That's especially depressing when you have a low mile rust free w-body you're looking to build for cheap.
SgtMarshal
Active member
dezldave961
Banned
Ugh, I've been avoiding FB, but it might be worth dipping a toe for the sole purpose of the marketplace. Currently refreshing and upgrading the Regal, and it's 100x harder to source some items, or resort to paying ZZP/etc. retail. I couldn't imagine (or recommend) someone starting from scratch with one of these cars, both parts and experience are too scarce to comfortably mod in the dark like that. I'll hang onto mine simply because the build is already done, and I'm just tinkering.
SgtMarshal
Active member
dezldave961
Banned
I've only had a few exchanges with him 10+ years ago, but I saw his site yesterday and it seems like he's working hard to offer various GM V6 products. He's at least showing transparency, it seems, with his Schedule page listing what is going on as projects are in his shop.
My hope is that Milzy is doing a decent job, because I may try getting some of the things he's listing.
GTPpower
New member
Don't buy anything from Milzy. Search his name. He has about $40k of lawsuits against him right now for not completing work that he charged for up front.
As far as headers go, I didn't know slp still made them. Like others said though, that gooseneck in the downpipe sucks. The flex also has a bad reputation for leaking.
SD's are hit and miss anymore. They used to all fit decent, but quality has really fallen off in the last year or two. On the Dyno, they also show basically no gain in power.
Zzp's are probably the best available now. Tog also makes a very good set, but I'm not sure if you can still buy those new.
As far as headers go, I didn't know slp still made them. Like others said though, that gooseneck in the downpipe sucks. The flex also has a bad reputation for leaking.
SD's are hit and miss anymore. They used to all fit decent, but quality has really fallen off in the last year or two. On the Dyno, they also show basically no gain in power.
Zzp's are probably the best available now. Tog also makes a very good set, but I'm not sure if you can still buy those new.
dezldave961
Banned
Sad to hear that he's dropping the ball.
SLP has been out of our market for a while now, like TOG, so anything out there is legacy parts from 10+ years ago.
I can tell there's slight changes in the SD's from my original SLO clones from 15yrs back, but there's definitely a gain to be had. I was tasked with dynoing the difference between manifolds and the headers.
LINK to chart
They better me the same ~25whp as SLP used to claim possible. (XP, 105", Gen3, 3.3") That made sense when the pipe diameters and layout were identical, and SD's are essentially the same, barring minor fit issues due to quality control.
ZZP has really the only new option outside eBay offerings, but it's up to what someone wants to pay, when they're in stock.
SLP has been out of our market for a while now, like TOG, so anything out there is legacy parts from 10+ years ago.
I can tell there's slight changes in the SD's from my original SLO clones from 15yrs back, but there's definitely a gain to be had. I was tasked with dynoing the difference between manifolds and the headers.
LINK to chart
They better me the same ~25whp as SLP used to claim possible. (XP, 105", Gen3, 3.3") That made sense when the pipe diameters and layout were identical, and SD's are essentially the same, barring minor fit issues due to quality control.
ZZP has really the only new option outside eBay offerings, but it's up to what someone wants to pay, when they're in stock.
dezldave961
Banned
Spell check replaced a couple things, but you get the idea.
SLP, not SLO
"netted me" not "better me"
105# not 105"
SLP, not SLO
"netted me" not "better me"
105# not 105"
dezldave961
Banned
I ran them a month apart at the same shop outside Detroit we used to frequent with MCCGP. Only change was the pipes, and I may have had my tuner by then to add fueling, if necessary. The entire point of the runs was as direct of a comparison as possible.