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2008 Grand Prix 3.8 III Series Coolant leak

Okay, pulled the "Fuel PP" relay and disconnected the plugs. Cranked the engine 7 times for about 6-8 seconds each time. I wanted to do 10 and 10 like Scotty mentioned earlier but it sounded really bad and the car was shaking quite a bit. By the 7th time of cranking the engine I got the feeling the battery was straining.

Before I continue and replace the relay and connect the plugs is there anything else I should do? I'm nervous about running the engine without oil but at the same time it's going to be a real pain in the ass to funnel oil through the oil filter adapter because the tire is still on the car. wstefan, I apologize for not really understanding you earlier, at the time I thought I was avoiding what you were concerned with, didn't really get that there was no way of not doing what you mentioned.
 


Sorry to hear about the trouble. I'm going to guess that you don't have access to a obd2 scanner or at least one that can display oil pressure. Is your light still on?

And please elaborate on "sounds really bad"...

I would start by trickle charging your battery overnight first.

Agreed, I prefer not doing the oil funnel trick, I think technically you're supposed to turn it by hand backwards with your transmission in neutral. I'll have to look up the procedure since I usually just pack the oil pump. Sorry about probably confusing you earlier.

I'm just worried about any damage that might have already happened and not making things worse. I know this job sucks, hopefully it all works out for you.
 
No, no obd2 scanner but the oil pressure light didn't come back on.

Trickle charger is on there now.

As for the sound; the engine just seemed to be starting really rough like it was struggling turn over, which makes sense considering. I was kind of expecting it to be really quiet since the engine wasn't actually combusting. Should the engine have been shaking?
 
trust me, I completely know what you mean. I'm not a mechanic and I learned the hard way as I've gone along so don't feel bad. I just found out that when rebuilding my transmission that I reversed my output shaft and might have burnt the clutches (meaning another rebuild if only partial is possible). Sh*t happens to the best of us.

I'd look at getting this: https://www.amazon.com/Launch-EasyDiag-Diagnostic-Transmission-Software/dp/B01F5FLD4Q

It will let you view abs, srs, dtc codes and view live data and capture it all using your phone. Best scanner I've used by far for the money.

For now, I'd charge your battery and see if the oil pressure light is still on.
 
That reader looks pretty nice, actually. I've added it to my wishlist.

So, battery charged and ready to give it another shot. I had my wife record audio.

http://fatesjoke.com/carpics/engine.m4a

Idle was oscillating between 1.5 and .5 with that high whine and shaking of the car. Engine ran for about 20 seconds and the oil pressure light and check engine light remained off. I did replace the PVC elbow (the old one was pretty bad when I went over everything checking for problems this morning) this morning that leads from the upper intake manifold to where the air filter is (no idea what it's called but guessing it's emission related).

Any thoughts?
 


cheatah faheatah said:
The whine sounds like a simple belt squeal. Check pulleys alignment and belt placement. Its real easy to be off a rib on the crank.
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Everything seems to be lined up perfectly with a visual inspection and all the belts are firmly in place. Just turned the engine over again and checked the belt for heat on the edges from rubbing, didn't feel anything and don't smell burning rubber.
 
Okay, went and got a code reader this morning, wstefan, the one you suggested isn't available on Amazon, so I had to go with an Innova 3040e.

It is telling me there are no codes stored in the vehicle computer but I am getting something under IPT; IGNCNTR with a value of 4 (it was 2, then I started over and got a 4, not sure if it is adding to the original value and the manual is worthless). The only green indicators I am getting for modules are MIS, FUE & CCM, despite letting it sit there for 10 minutes to run the diagnostics. Manual says some modules may not be available for all vehicles but when I go to repairsolutions.com and plug the reader in it says those tests were not completed, not that they are unavailable.

I'm really thinking it is time to just get a mechanic involved unless someone has some insight here. I don't want to not be the one to complete this repair, but it's been over a month that my car has not been drive-able and I am tired of borrowing a car to use every day.
 
you need miles of miles, days of dring to and from work to make all systems "ready" if thats what your trying to figure out there.

cel wont set till something fails its diag 2 or 3 times.
 


Agreed with what Scotty says.

It does sound like a idler pulley bearing or something of the sorts. I'd spin everything by hand with belt off and listen for noise. Then I'd quickly turn the engine over with spark and fuel removed to rule out the engine itself. Then I'd spray some soapy water on each pulley with belt on to see if noise gets quieter or not, then you'll know your problem.

the secret to belt noise is process of elimination. Looking at the whole system your head will spin, but slowly adding things back in will help eliminate what isn't wrong. If one of these pulleys are off slightly, you'll get this noise.

Don't ever feel ashamed to let a mechanic take a look though. We've all been there.

Let us know how it goes, and good luck!
 
wstefan20 said:
Agreed with what Scotty says.

It does sound like a idler pulley bearing or something of the sorts. I'd spin everything by hand with belt off and listen for noise. Then I'd quickly turn the engine over with spark and fuel removed to rule out the engine itself. Then I'd spray some soapy water on each pulley with belt on to see if noise gets quieter or not, then you'll know your problem.

the secret to belt noise is process of elimination. Looking at the whole system your head will spin, but slowly adding things back in will help eliminate what isn't wrong. If one of these pulleys are off slightly, you'll get this noise.

Don't ever feel ashamed to let a mechanic take a look though. We've all been there.

Let us know how it goes, and good luck!
Click to expand...

Okay, I pulled the belt and checked all the pulleys. I have video of checking them but it's pretty boring, All except for the crank shaft pulley had silent and easy movement in both directions. I thought I heard some water movement with the water pump pulley, but not 100% on that.

Pulled the fuel pump module and disconnected the plugs, cranked the engine another 6 times then reconnected everything and replaced the belt.

Tried starting the engine again, here's some video of it but it's mainly for the audio since I left the phone near the engine and was doing it alone. I then got video of me inspecting the belt and pulleys.: https://photos.app.goo.gl/UBUqHCuIKl99wSqQ2

I wasn't able to use the soap since I wasn't comfortable letting the engine run for any longer than necessary and there is no on here to do it for me.

It does seem that there is a pulley off because the belt is off a little on the tensioner, but none of the pulleys wiggled when I pulled on them.

The engine almost seemed a little smoother, and the idle was between 1,500 and 500 this time. But stepping on the gas didn't get an response for a couple of seconds it seemed.

My next day off is Sunday, so I guess I'll make calls over the next few days to find a shop.
 
Did you get the harmonic balancer off a tough when reinstalling it?? Just reaching for things for ya.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
So...

Had a buddy come over today, he has some (works at a shop, not a mechanic) experience with cars, and we looked at my car. Played around with a few things, pulled plugs and checked out the build-up and gap. Everything looked good. He was stumped. Checked codes again and actually got one.

The CPS threw a code. Went and bought a new sensor.

Figured I'd try and tighten the CS pulley a little more just to eliminate the squeak first. Got two full rotations, despite torquing to spec. Turned the engine over and it runs smooth as ever. But there is a whine from the belt still.

Bought a new belt and will put it on in the AM. But right now everything seems to be perfect. No codes, no check engine light and the idle is smooth and steady.

My car has sat for two weeks because I didn't give two more turns to the CS pulley. It's totally my fault but I'm really glad to know that I actually did fix everything already, I just failed to tighten a single pulley all the way. Hopefully the new belt seals the deal and I'm done with everything.

Thanks again, everyone. I'll post again tomorrow with an update to confirm it is fixed. I would tonight, but I want to go to bed pretty sure it's a done deal.
 


Put the new belt on and the squeak is gone.

Turned the engine over, let it warm up and bled the air out of the coolant system. Heater is blowing hot, no leaks under the car, everything looks good.

Went for a drive, filled the tank, drove some more. No problems. Checked the OBD and no codes are showing.

Let the car sit for about 10 minutes to check the oil, it's a little over filled so I'm going to get a change done in the next few days just to get that all cleaned out and correct.

Then I noticed that the upper radiator hose is totally collapsed. I don't ever remember seeing that on a car before, so I'm not sure if I need to be concerned or not. It makes me think that I've got a good seal in the coolant system, so I don't need to worry about it, but is negative pressure something that I want?
 
Collapsed hose means your radiator cap isn't working properly. It should be allowing any pressure over ~16psi to exit while running and once cold it should allow the system to pull coolant back in from the overflow. Cheap fix.
 
BillBooost37 said:
Collapsed hose means your radiator cap isn't working properly. It should be allowing any pressure over ~16psi to exit while running and once cold it should allow the system to pull coolant back in from the overflow. Cheap fix.
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Yeah, I should have googled before posting, lol.

I think I over tightened the radiator cap at some point because I opened it and the hose went back to normal. Tightened the cap normally and went for another drive, no issues with the hose.
 
Fatesjoke said:
Yeah, I should have googled before posting, lol.

I think I over tightened the radiator cap at some point because I opened it and the hose went back to normal. Tightened the cap normally and went for another drive, no issues with the hose.
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Tighter isn't always better....
 
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