2000 Grand Prix GT, ABS Pump gone bad, Right Speed Sensor

[geeksweep]

I took my car in to get some other work done(hub assembly, tire rod, a/c blower motor) and told them about my ABS light coming on. Normally when that would happen in the past, a speed sensor would be the issue and the 'service engine soon' light would come on. However it never did for some reason even though thats one of the problems that came back from the codes the shop found. I did notice after a while, that the antilock brake light would come on when i first started the car instead of driving it a bit (which would then trigger the sensor code - abs pulls when you brake, you can hear the motor on the module, then finally the abs light and trac off light comes on). - I guess this explains the pump gone bad.

I was quoted in the neighborhood of $1,000 for the replacement of the ABS Pump. Should i assume that that price includes just the pump and not a whole new ABS module?

2000 Pontiac Grad Prix
Miles: 252,800

 

[Fivefingerdeathpunch]

If the pump is working and you hear it working, I am no so sure that is something that is the problem.

It's more likely that the ABS module is acting up and causing the problems, it's kind of a common thing for these vehicles. If you unplug it and the issue stops, it might be worth it to have it sent in and rebuilt. Perhaps see if anyone in your area rebuilds them or check out modulemasters, they do rebuilds aswell.


The price they quote is likely for both the ABS pump/module and programming.

 

[markpa]

For 1000 bucks and 252k. The brakes still work with out ABS. Old school driving.


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[Bronco Boy]

You most likely have a bad bearing/sensor or a wiring issue.

 

[geeksweep]

For 1000 bucks and 252k. The brakes still work with out ABS. Old school driving.


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Well ABS can be helpful for when rain comes and you really don't feel like slipping and sliding around. Also, it can be a bit dangerous when you first start driving because when you press on the brake, the car doesnt brake well - when you hear that popping noise coming from the ABS - the brakes almost feel like they have 1/0th of their braking power. This goes on until the ABS shuts itself off and the ABS Light/Trac off light comes on.

 

[Bronco Boy]

Also, it can be a bit dangerous when you first start driving because when you press on the brake, the car doesnt brake well - when you hear that popping noise coming from the ABS - the brakes almost feel like they have 1/0th of their braking power. This goes on until the ABS shuts itself off and the ABS Light/Trac off light comes on.

If you unplug one of the wheel sensors, it will disable the ABS. The ABS and TRAC lights will be on all the time, but it will eliminate the ABS having to cycle a few times before disabling itself.

I'm in the same position as you. I had a pinched wire on my right front wheel bearing, so I unplugged it. Finally changed the bearing and all was good for a few days before the ABS starting spazzing out and shutting off. I now have to pull a wheel and unplug a bearing cuz as you say, when the ABS cycles under normal braking, it is hard to stop. LOL

 

[geeksweep]

ok, so i just heard back from the shop. I have a right rear speed sensor that has gone bad and a front right sensor. Since the sensors are part of the hub assembly that means i would have to get new hubs for both of those(parts and labor $416 each) - even though the hubs themselves are tight and looking good - just the sensors have gone bad. (why didn't they make it to where you could just replace the sensors instead of the entire hub?? UGH!)

I confirmed with the shop that the complete ABS module would be replaced. Two codes came back dealing with the ABS(don't have the actual codes but i he said on the phone one was related to the hydraulics and one electrical). The confirmed price for parts and labor was $1375. He said that he finally found a brand new AC Delco one(could not find an after-market one) after calling around b/c evidently Chevy/GMC has discontinued that part and can no longer be ordered from the dealer. :th_nervous:

I am thinking that i could just raise the hood and unplug the ABS completely. If I wanted to do that, I am sure there is plenty of info on Youtube but can anyone be so kind and tell me how anyway? thanks.

 

[Bronco Boy]

I would change the two bad wheel bearings and see what happens. Bearings can be had for under $150 a piece, and can be changed in less than an hour, so $416 parts and labour is very high. My best time replacing a front wheel bearing is 30 minutes total time, and I didn't really haul ass doing it. LOL

 

[geeksweep]

I would change the two bad wheel bearings and see what happens. Bearings can be had for under $150 a piece, and can be changed in less than an hour, so $416 parts and labour is very high. My best time replacing a front wheel bearing is 30 minutes total time, and I didn't really haul ass doing it. LOL

well if we are getting back codes for ABS Hydraulics and Electrical then fixing the speed sensors are not going to change anything. And if i wanted to do that on my own i wouldn't even know where you begin. I realize everyone in here might be mechanics or have experience but i don't have the know how/knowledge or the tools to replace two hub assemblies and feel confident enough about it to let my wife and kids run off with it and know that they will be safe.

 

[Bronco Boy]

well if we are getting back codes for ABS Hydraulics and Electrical then fixing the speed sensors are not going to change anything.

Yes and no. The way I see it, your ABS is cycling, which means it is working, and a new module is extremely expensive, so changing the two bad bearings may be your only problem. If not, then look at the module.

And being that you need a shop to do the work (which I get), and the quote you got is very high, I would get a second or third opinion for said labour. There #'s tell me that they are charging top dollar for the bearing, and possibly 2 hours of labour.

 

[firstdue]

I had this same issue with my 2001. Replace both wheel bearings and it was still there. I ended up replacing the wiring harness to the right front wheel and that solved the problem. I would start with the harness first as its much cheaper than the wheel bearings.

 

[geeksweep]

Yes and no. The way I see it, your ABS is cycling, which means it is working, and a new module is extremely expensive, so changing the two bad bearings may be your only problem. If not, then look at the module.

And being that you need a shop to do the work (which I get), and the quote you got is very high, I would get a second or third opinion for said labour. There #'s tell me that they are charging top dollar for the bearing, and possibly 2 hours of labour.

I just picked up the car and the ABS had 5 fault codes for ABS pump failure and right front/right rear speed sensors. (no idea on the actual codes). So to confirm i could drive it around for a bit and see if i can get the codes and then come back but no reason they would lie about that - they've been good to work with thus far. In other words, in this case, simply replacing the sensors wouldn't keep the ABS from cycling and then going off.

Here is the breakdown on the estimate that i did get though. I assume all new parts here since it wasn't noted otherwise:

1. Replace ACDelco ABS Pump Assembly/Modulator(w/Traction Control): Part: $1,100, Labor: $270.40 = $1,370.40
2. Replace Right Rear Wheel Hub with ABS Sensor(sensor is bad but bearing is good): Part: $230.53, Labor: $157.50 = $388.03
3. Replace Right Front Wheel Hub with ABS Sensor(No Signal from sensor but bearing is good): Part: $215.46, Labor: $201.50 = $416.96

The part prices for the hubs are not that far off of your $150 mark since they are new ( i assume you were talking about used). Not sure what they charge per hour though.

 

[Bronco Boy]

In other words, in this case, simply replacing the sensors wouldn't keep the ABS from cycling and then going off.

As I've said already it could. LOL

2. Replace Right Rear Wheel Hub with ABS Sensor(sensor is bad but bearing is good): Part: $230.53, Labor: $157.50 = $388.03
3. Replace Right Front Wheel Hub with ABS Sensor(No Signal from sensor but bearing is good): Part: $215.46, Labor: $201.50 = $416.96

The part prices for the hubs are not that far off of your $150 mark since they are new ( i assume you were talking about used). Not sure what they charge per hour though.

My #'s are for new. Those labour prices are crazy. Do you know their labour rate? Looks like they are around $100/hr. I have to say, that front bearing labour is rediculous. LOL

 

[markpa]

Acdelco bearings on Amazon are about 80 bucks. Easy to install if you have tools. I have spliced wires before to get them to work if the bearings are good but tight quarters unless you take it apart but at that point you can just replace. You can find some sweet used 1999-2003 GP's with way less miles than yours for under 2k. How attached are you to the car?


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[geeksweep]

Acdelco bearings on Amazon are about 80 bucks. Easy to install if you have tools. I have spliced wires before to get them to work if the bearings are good but tight quarters unless you take it apart but at that point you can just replace. You can find some sweet used 1999-2003 GP's with way less miles than yours for under 2k. How attached are you to the car?


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well its not just about being attached. We are going to look at getting a larger vehicle (i.e. van) for the family b/c we need something bigger but i want to keep that car to run around in and get a little bit of a insurance discount as well. I also really like it b/c it has the Heads Up Display(HUD) that most cars/vehicles don't have (don't know why not?). So i am not looking to get another car.

 

[geeksweep]

As I've said already it could. LOL

My #'s are for new. Those labour prices are crazy. Do you know their labour rate? Looks like they are around $100/hr. I have to say, that front bearing labour is rediculous. LOL

all i am saying is is that if there are 3 different codes coming from the ABS module itself - and 2 speed sensor codes - then obviously i don't know how fixing those speed sensor problems are in any way related to why I am getting 3 codes for the module.

they also warranty their parts and labor for 2 years after the work is done so don't know how or if they is factored into the labor rate.

 

[Scottydoggs]

holly crap, do your own work, you could buy another used car for that money.

hubs are a 100 bucks a pop, the abs module can be removed and shipped out to be repaired for 100 bucks as well.

 

[geeksweep]

holly crap, do your own work, you could buy another used car for that money.

hubs are a 100 bucks a pop, the abs module can be removed and shipped out to be repaired for 100 bucks as well.

you could get another car but i really don't want to swap out a used for another used car that I have no idea about (where its been, etc). I would venture to say that, although I have these problems now, there are many cars with less miles that have more problems than what i have with this one. Last year i spent about $1,000 on maintenance on it.

where would you find hubs at $100 a piece? and I'm sure if i get it from somewhere else(a body shop, 3rd party), the shop isn't going to put it on for me so that means I would have to do it but I have already addressed that in another post. I am not a mechanic or even mechanically inclined. This is our only car for now so i can't have it tied up while i try to figure it all out. (if i were to try)

where would you recommend a good place to send out the abs module? would it have a warranty? are they going to even be able to find the parts to fix it? - Remember this module has been discontinued so whoever looked at it would have to hunt down the module and/or any parts.

 

[geeksweep]

As I've said already it could. LOL





My #'s are for new. Those labour prices are crazy. Do you know their labour rate? Looks like they are around $100/hr. I have to say, that front bearing labour is rediculous. LOL

the other thing that I just thought of is that all their mechanics work on foreign cars as well as domestic so their pay will probably be higher because of that. I know I've seen mercedes, porsche, audi.. etc in the shop when I've been in there.

 

[markpa]

I wonder how close you are to any forum members. Might be an opportunity for them to make a little money and save you a lot of money. At least on the hubs.


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