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cold air intake?

lageR said:
not degrading people, just worthless overrated intake designs in this case.

wouldn't want any honesty though, bad news...
Click to expand...


What kind of intake are you running there? Why not tell us your intake expertise so we can all learn from you:th_thumb-down:

Your intake comments = FAIL...EPICALLY

I run a custom 4" Hot Air Intake setup with a open cone with my LS1 TB Setup...honestly though if you want a real intake. Get a TDC Fenderwell. WAY better than stock and it is a lot cheaper than the JMB, SLP, Wizaird, K&N...and whatever intake genius tells you.:th_angry2:

When you are cammed/rockers/intercooled...or even a lot of bolt-ons...an race between a car with a CAI...FWI...and even a HAI...aren't going to make maybe more than a centimeter of a difference.

So all in all...I say TDC FWI or Open Cone on the MAF...both great intakes...and who cares really, you just wanna hear the blower nonetheless right??!:th_king-evil:
 


bluegtp91 said:
What kind of intake are you running there? Why not tell us your intake expertise so we can all learn from you:th_thumb-down:

Your intake comments = FAIL...EPICALLY

I run a custom 4" Hot Air Intake setup with a open cone with my LS1 TB Setup...honestly though if you want a real intake. Get a TDC Fenderwell. WAY better than stock and it is a lot cheaper than the JMB, SLP, Wizaird, K&N...and whatever intake genius tells you.:th_angry2:

When you are cammed/rockers/intercooled...or even a lot of bolt-ons...an race between a car with a CAI...FWI...and even a HAI...aren't going to make maybe more than a centimeter of a difference.

So all in all...I say TDC FWI or Open Cone on the MAF...both great intakes...and who cares really, you just wanna hear the blower nonetheless right??!:th_king-evil:
Click to expand...

I've dynoed the difference, verified it with flow numbers, and proven it at the track, the HAI made a substantial difference over a FWI.

It's all in the adiabatic efficiency of the blower, and the effect that even a very minute amount of inlet vacuum can have on the outlet temperatures seen after the blower. The delta T is the important player, and when the difference in inlet temps is only 10-15 degrees, whereas the difference in outlet temps is over 50-60 degrees, the HAI becomes the clear winner. I played around with thermocouples for quite some time changing nothing but intake design, the differences are most certainly there. This thing didn't run 11s on homemade parts and home-ported stock stuff because of luck.

I run an SLP silicone elbow off of the LS1 TB, directly to a GM 85mm MAF, to which the filter is mounted. You won't beat the flow of this system unless you're running a TB of more than 75mm.

I'm glad you voiced your opinion on my years of knowledge based upon first hand testing being some sort of epic failure, it seems that constitutes a rather substantial failure of your own, no?
:th_thumbsup-wink:
 
A 4'' intake with a length of 3 feet can flow well above 500 cfm's.



That is way above what an engine that has 500HP will use.


I did the 2 hours of math and searching to prove this.


You can't argue with cold air. It makes power. That's why intercoolers are so effective.You think cold air intakes are restrictive?? Think about how restrictive they are.


But i'm not here to argue so that's all i'm going to say.
 
lageR said:
I've dynoed the difference, verified it with flow numbers, and proven it at the track, the HAI made a substantial difference over a FWI.

It's all in the adiabatic efficiency of the blower, and the effect that even a very minute amount of inlet vacuum can have on the outlet temperatures seen after the blower. The delta T is the important player, and when the difference in inlet temps is only 10-15 degrees, whereas the difference in outlet temps is over 50-60 degrees, the HAI becomes the clear winner. I played around with thermocouples for quite some time changing nothing but intake design, the differences are most certainly there. This thing didn't run 11s on homemade parts and home-ported stock stuff because of luck.

I run an SLP silicone elbow off of the LS1 TB, directly to a GM 85mm MAF, to which the filter is mounted. You won't beat the flow of this system unless you're running a TB of more than 75mm.

I'm glad you voiced your opinion on my years of knowledge based upon first hand testing being some sort of epic failure, it seems that constitutes a rather substantial failure of your own, no?
:th_thumbsup-wink:
Click to expand...

Well considering I don't have access to a dyno and I choose not to give my life away to testing ambient temps of a 3800 series intake...I'd say my explanation is good enough, but not so much epic failure since you run the damned same intake as I do huh?
 
lageR said:
I've dynoed the difference, verified it with flow numbers, and proven it at the track, the HAI made a substantial difference over a FWI.

It's all in the adiabatic efficiency of the blower, and the effect that even a very minute amount of inlet vacuum can have on the outlet temperatures seen after the blower. The delta T is the important player, and when the difference in inlet temps is only 10-15 degrees, whereas the difference in outlet temps is over 50-60 degrees, the HAI becomes the clear winner. I played around with thermocouples for quite some time changing nothing but intake design, the differences are most certainly there. This thing didn't run 11s on homemade parts and home-ported stock stuff because of luck.

I run an SLP silicone elbow off of the LS1 TB, directly to a GM 85mm MAF, to which the filter is mounted. You won't beat the flow of this system unless you're running a TB of more than 75mm.

I'm glad you voiced your opinion on my years of knowledge based upon first hand testing being some sort of epic failure, it seems that constitutes a rather substantial failure of your own, no?
:th_thumbsup-wink:
Click to expand...


Prove it.

I want video of the CAI on and off with dyno numbers. Proof that you're tune did not change,proof of ambient temps and proof of outlet temps.

Show me.
 


TDCRacing said:
A 4'' intake with a length of 3 feet can flow well above 500 cfm's.



That is way above what an engine that has 500HP will use.


I did the 2 hours of math and searching to prove this.


You can't argue with cold air. It makes power. That's why intercoolers are so effective.You think cold air intakes are restrictive?? Think about how restrictive they are.


But i'm not here to argue so that's all i'm going to say.
Click to expand...


It takes less than an inch of vacuum to create a very substantial rise in heat gain across the blower.

Yes, that length of pipe can support that amount of flow, but at what pressure differential are you quoting that flow number? If it's at more than an inch of vacuum, you need to take into account the adiabatic efficiency effects from the inlet vacuum, these effects are far from negligible. Also, you're quoting a length of straight pipe in your flow numbers. You do, however, need to concentrate on effective length, which takes into account losses for directional changes, i.e. bends. Most FWI's have at least one fairly extreme bend which adds a pretty substantial amount of effective length to the equation. How much effective length depends on the bend radius, the angle, the pipe diameter, etc.

You need to read what I said. Don't tell me cooler air makes more power, when clearly what I'm getting at here is that exact same fact. If the inlet temp difference is 10 degrees between two intake setups, which is roughly in line (if anything, it's on the high side) of what I've seen, and the difference in outlet temps is 50-60* (again, in line with what I've seen), then you're talking a difference of 40-50 degrees, favoring the open cone. I've verified this on my car, and seen similar performance differences on several other cars I've wrenched on and converted to open cones.

It might seem counterintuitive, but it's simply how it goes on these things.:th_wtf:
 
And i'm not trying to argue. I have never had the time to properly document these things on a dyno. I would love to do so. Or in you're case seen where you HAVE done so.


I just wanted to let you know I was not impling that you were lying.
 
TDCRacing said:
Prove it.

I want video of the CAI on and off with dyno numbers. Proof that you're tune did not change,proof of ambient temps and proof of outlet temps.

Show me.
Click to expand...


The dyno testing was done almost 3 years ago, there's no videos, and I doubt I have the sheets anymore.

All my themocouple data was read directly from analog thermocouples, hand tablulated, and anything I graphed was on my old tuning computer that fried itself shortly after the last .bin I flashed almost a year and a half ago. I didn't really feel the need to back all the data up, because I was more than convinced enough of the behavior I was examining.

There's a reason that all the fastest blower cars you see run an open cone, and that reason is not that it sounds cool.
 
TDCRacing said:
And i'm not trying to argue. I have never had the time to properly document these things on a dyno. I would love to do so. Or in you're case seen where you HAVE done so.


I just wanted to let you know I was not impling that you were lying.
Click to expand...

I was lying about everything. I know nothing about cars. That is why Jay and Brian do everything.:th_laugh-lol3:
 


TDCRacing said:
And i'm not trying to argue. I have never had the time to properly document these things on a dyno. I would love to do so. Or in you're case seen where you HAVE done so.


I just wanted to let you know I was not impling that you were lying.
Click to expand...

The dynos were not anything but hp numbers, there was no other data at the time.

I had the thing on the dyno, had made 2 pulls that were almost the same, and thought I'd see what would happen if I removed the pipe, and clamped the filter directly to the MAF.
I didn't think it would do a damn thing, and I was wrong. I don't remember what the peak difference was, but it was much more than I would have ever expected. That's what led me to do all the testing I did in my spare time, and it convinced me that the open cone was the best option.
 
all out performance. yea open cone. puting around the street, it makes the car feel very bogish (atleast it did on my car) take your pick. they both have there pluses.

if someone wants to run something for certin reasons, well they shall. its there car, why do you care so much to argue about something that your going to never drive.....
 
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