• The site migration is complete! Hopefully everything transferred properly from the multiple decades old software we were using before. If you notice any issues please let me know, thanks! Also, I'm still working on things like chatbox, etc so hopefully those will be working in the next week or two.

Why does my car like rich? Lean it KR's

PWNED

PWNED

New member
I have been working and working on this tune and thought I had it as it pulled pretty decent for what it was esp. when 3rd gear came around. This was when I was hitting an 11.0 afr. But as you see it would KR bad! Autolite 103's gapped at .050 didn't even help so I put back in my 104's @ .050. So I had to add 2% of fuel from 9500 up and as you see the KR went down drastically (this was within 15 minutes of the last) so same conditions) but it does seem slower. What can I do now to help? When I was not ICed I tried 11.5 afr but was only able to run 11* timing. Put back in the old tune and was hitting 10.6-10.4 @ 17* virtually KR free on a 3.4. A 3.2 it hated unless I dropped another 2* timing.

Now we are a 3.0 Pulley ICed with a 10.9-10.6 afr @ 18-17*. The wide band is .1-.2 off so subtract that of what you see.

The screen shots are right when it goes into 3rd. Which is my problem area. Guessing the pistons are still getting toasty?




 
Last edited:


Anything under 1º I wouldnt even bat an eye at, thats really not enough to cause any sort of damage and if anything the PCM is drop 1º of timing.

Where it starts to get higher like 1.5-2.5 and you are still trying to run 17, just set it to 14-15º to see if the knock goes away.

I could never run a leaner AFR, anything above 11.4 or something and it would knock. I always just kept it at 10.8-11 afr and stopped caring because I knew it would not knock and I am not going to concern myself with losing 5-10hp if that for having to run a richer air fuel ratio. 3rd gear really puts the most load on the motor, the best chance for knock, the best chance for higher cylinder temps and EGT's.
 
These cars LOVE running lean, my car runs 12ish at the start of my powerband then runs steady around 11.8. The difference in power in 10.5:1 to where I am now is huge. I would set your timing to 17ish and no lower than 15-16* cus it virtually does absolutely nothing. A lot has to do with your timing curve aswell. the more steady/less bumps the less likely it is to knock. Torque management aswell.
 
17 can be too high, not every motor thinks 17 is okay.

Nothing wrong with having to run 13-15º if thats what it means to be knock free. I ran 13-14º just because I didnt want to have to watch my aeroforce every time I wanted to get into boost.

Totally different platform but many turbo/supercharged LS based cars trucks will run 11-15º and still throw down 500-700 whp without even caring on pump gas.
 
When I first tuned my car I could only get 12-14* out of it with the same mods until I dialed my trims removed torque management and evened out my afr and timing tables.
 
How do you even out your AFR tables? Mine is set to 11.5 across the board (came like that) I have been modifying the maf table for AFR and i have 0 tq management. Maybe its not the best way but i just thought about tweaking the ADD vs RPM table. Nor near my laptop now but would that work? Like when 3rd gear comes around it will hang out in that area longer than a 2nd gear pull. Track days that area is important or the occasional fun pull. Maybe i should try the 103s again gapped lower as it might seem like a good idea as well.
 


Yes threw the maf table. Adjusting and smoothing the 7k+ tables so you have a steady afr threw. I unfortunately don't have my laptop on me but take a screenshot of your timing table.
 
Yea exactly, set the spark adder table to 0 across the board. This is my table. Your table is all over the place.


Btw what i meant by afr table was maf hz seeing we adjust fueling threw the maf.
 
Last edited:
Ginseng said:
Yea exactly, set the spark adder table to 0 across the board. This is my table. Your table is all over the place.


Btw what i meant by afr table was maf hz seeing we adjust fueling threw the maf.
Click to expand...

My table is mainly a stock raped file file lol. Did you base your timing table from a specific gtp file and just go to town on it? How did you come up with knowing that the same values will work in that area vs a stock table?

This is the table I used when I had my gtp with an S1X tuned to 11.5 afr. I 0ed out all PE fuel/Spark adders and tuned fueling just via maf.

I believe we can tune fueling from the PE ADDER vs RPM vs TIME table but I have no idea how to read it.


 
i put 05 super charged timing files and knock sensor files in my 98 regal bin. its a good starting point. 05 timing is much more aggressive then 97-03 l67's.
 


Scottydoggs said:
i put 05 super charged timing files and knock sensor files in my 98 regal bin. its a good starting point. 05 timing is much more aggressive then 97-03 l67's.
Click to expand...

IIRC this is what I did when I tuned my car, that was 3-4 years ago. I tuned the AFRs to 11.0 and running like 18*-19* of timing. I could be wrong but it was on the high side.
 
I have been paying so much attention to my tune that in the mornings (60-70*) I will be hitting 10.7 AFR. On the way home I am hitting a solid 10.9-11.0 when it is 80-90* out. Like clock work everyday this week. What parameter can I adjust for this? Or is there nothing except lean it out more? Can a spark plug have an effect?

Side note I wish I brought my HPT with me to the track the other day as I was right around 10.8's and when 3rd hit I was buried at 10.2. The only time I have seen it that low. I was also around 10.5-10.6 on the ride home. Today I did RTV the hell out of my ZZP headers crossover as there was a heat streak mark that alerted me of a leak. As seen below so maybe that was the culprit??????? I doubt having a 1/4 tank of 93 and 1 gal of 110 will have an effect.

 
Last edited:
There is an IAT table. Is that what you are looking for?

I have SD headers and had to rtv the crossover pretty heavy too. Tonight I was pulling hard onto the freeway and heard something let go. It was either the rtv blowing out, or an exhaust gasket failed. Not sure cause I didn't have time to look, but it kinda shook me up when it went, got loud real fast lol. I'm about done messing with the crossover and looking for a better more permanent fix like welding flanges for the crossover like the stock exhaust has.
 
bandook said:
There is an IAT table. Is that what you are looking for?

I have SD headers and had to rtv the crossover pretty heavy too. Tonight I was pulling hard onto the freeway and heard something let go. It was either the rtv blowing out, or an exhaust gasket failed. Not sure cause I didn't have time to look, but it kinda shook me up when it went, got loud real fast lol. I'm about done messing with the crossover and looking for a better more permanent fix like welding flanges for the crossover like the stock exhaust has.
Click to expand...

I don't believe the IAT spark table is controlling that AFR change per weather.
 


Zero out the add vs rpm table if you do not want it to add fuel as time goes on. Look at how the table works, at 4,000 rpm and 4 seconds into the throttle it is already taking away .5 from the base PE number, and it will continue to add fuel as the rpm and time goes on.


Set your PE table to 11.5 across the board and now it will really never command anything other than 11.5 AFR.

If it is still more or less than 11.5, then you MAF table will be the only thing to use to bring it up or down in AFR.
 
Fivefingerdeathpunch said:
Zero out the add vs rpm table if you do not want it to add fuel as time goes on. Look at how the table works, at 4,000 rpm and 4 seconds into the throttle it is already taking away .5 from the base PE number, and it will continue to add fuel as the rpm and time goes on.


Set your PE table to 11.5 across the board and now it will really never command anything other than 11.5 AFR.

If it is still more or less than 11.5, then you MAF table will be the only thing to use to bring it up or down in AFR.
Click to expand...

That does make sense but why the AFR change when it is cooler vs hotter out?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top