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I want really big brakes!



Re: The Official what you need and how-to for CTS-V brakes

carguy0119 said:
Ok. That would have been nice. When u drilled the CTS v rotor hat to fit your set up I saw it looks like you just over drilled existing holes right? I know I would not be able to do that on the wheel bearings but could I drill the 5x120 pattern in the middle of the existing 5x115 holes or would that compromise the structural integrity of that plate?
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I took the existing 5x120 bolt pattern on the rotors and just slotted them down to 5x115 no need to drill anything on the hubs and I also increased the bore size in the new rotors to match the stock hub. no need to touch the Grand Prix hubs
 
I see what u mean by slotting them now. Makes perfect sense. Does each hole just move 2.5mm towards center? Looks pretty straight forward too. I am just thinking that if I could safely and effectively get a 120 pattern onto my hubs it would make looking for wheels a lot easier! The more I think about it tho the more I am thinking those wheels might be just wide enough to contact my coilovers... any way u could get me a rough measurment from where the rim meets the hat to the inside edge of that wheel? Please don't tell me how much those effers cost just yet. My lady is giving me plenty of grief for spending so much money on that rotor. So I have sent emails to moog and wheel bearings inc. to try and see if they can send me wheel bearings without a bolt pattern drilled in them. What I wouldn't give to work at a machine shop! I have most of the measurments I need to cnc my own hats but I cant find a local shop that has the equipment to make 3d parts or if they do they cant do anything automotive for insurance reasons... God Damn sue happy America to thank for that!

So does anybody have any suggestions of anywhere I could send an AutoCad file and a couple chunks of Aluminum to? Or should most machine shops have materials to chose from?
 
diddler3 said:
I moved all the posts out of the How-To for the CTS-V since this is a totally different topic at hand.
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Hey sry for cluttering up your thread! I am new to this whole forum thing so I thought u had just deleted all of it. Glad to see u didnt! I did start another thread tho. Is there anyway for me to combine the two? Its the "ZR1 or Z28 carbon ceramic brake swap" If not no biggie ill prob just delete the other one.
 
Stopping speed should accompany acceleration speed... Matched pair so to say! Spending on this set up without the accompanying speed/acceleration is foolhardy! Maybe, just maybe with a twin charged or twin turbo setup on the car I'd say yeah sure... But on a 2 ton vehicle with a crap suspension, grossundersteer, its silly. Unless of course you're customizing the frame (carbon fiber), with reinforced body bracing, custom suspension with a V12 whipped motor under the hood and a GP skin just to trick people out... Not worth it. Like a train wreck though, I'll watch! :D
 


the corvette spindle and the W body spindle have the same 3 bolt pattern and the hubs even have the same spline and abs connector changes over the years as the W bearings. only the trucks have the large 3 bolt wheel bearing to knuckle pattern. the only other pattern is the two types of 4 bolt "non driven" bearings.

we looked at vette knuckles and 4 corner U/L A arm suspension for the 442...no chance for 15" rims over the knuckles.

im actually looking at modifying F body brackets inward so use em with the small rotor to fit much cheaper 15" rims and 28" slicks under the fenders. saves almost 200$ each corner over 16 or 17" stuff
 
so wait a minute f body calipers on 15 inch rims? hmmm caged car has some baby grand am brakes on it now and i have 15 inch slicks. wonder how much of an improvement that would be?
 
Lemme know how that goes turbo400. As far as needing the stopping power I know it's overkill. That being said I am still trying to find anybody that makes or is going to be making carbon ceramic rotors for the cts-v calipers as they are a lot easier to come by than the corvette or z28 calipers. I am still not 100% convinced that the Vette wheel hubs don't fit on the grand prix front spindle. Finding one for the rear (4 bolt hub) is going to be a different story. Coolone. As far as needing the stopping power I will be needing to do a lot more work but I plan on either going with a twin charged setup but i don't know if this is even going to produce the power I want. Anybody have actual whp numbers for twin charged gps? The other option I am looking at is either modifying an lt1 5.7 or swapping in the 5.3 from gxp and putting a whipple on it. Just sucks cause I already have a little over 10k in my 3.8 motor... anybody wanna buy it? Lol. Last dyno numbers were 265 whp. Can't remember torque. Either way it's no where close to my 500 goal. Also have no idea what to do about a trans. Lots of people talking about dog boxes. Transmissions have just never been my thing. I can do pretty much everything else but not gonna lie transmissions intimidate me.
 
carguy0119 said:
Lemme know how that goes turbo400. As far as needing the stopping power I know it's overkill. That being said I am still trying to find anybody that makes or is going to be making carbon ceramic rotors for the cts-v calipers as they are a lot easier to come by than the corvette or z28 calipers. I am still not 100% convinced that the Vette wheel hubs don't fit on the grand prix front spindle. Finding one for the rear (4 bolt hub) is going to be a different story. Coolone. As far as needing the stopping power I will be needing to do a lot more work but I plan on either going with a twin charged setup but i don't know if this is even going to produce the power I want. Anybody have actual whp numbers for twin charged gps? The other option I am looking at is either modifying an lt1 5.7 or swapping in the 5.3 from gxp and putting a whipple on it. Just sucks cause I already have a little over 10k in my 3.8 motor... anybody wanna buy it? Lol. Last dyno numbers were 265 whp. Can't remember torque. Either way it's no where close to my 500 goal. Also have no idea what to do about a trans. Lots of people talking about dog boxes. Transmissions have just never been my thing. I can do pretty much everything else but not gonna lie transmissions intimidate me.
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oh for ****s sake i just told you they are the same 3 bolt pattern, the corvette rear hub bearings with the axle splines will bolt into our front knuckles, and if your looking for the 5x4.75 lug pattern instead of the 5 x 4.5 then you use the 4 bolt front wheel bearings from the F bodies (which would blt into your rear knuckle.

ive driven a full boogie compG build with gxp front and rear brakes and its stupid easy to lock em up and end up with the abs on and not stopping nearly as fast as a good threshold braking technique....kinda touchy without the gxp pedal/pushrod pivot point on the brake pedal arm.

i dont see why youd want the headache of that large of brakes aside from bragging rights

the Riv actually wrecked because the front brakes did lockup...even with 255 MT dr's (abs deleted)....not good at nearly 100mph

huge is awesome but not always better
 


98GrandPrickVet said:
so wait a minute f body calipers on 15 inch rims? hmmm caged car has some baby grand am brakes on it now and i have 15 inch slicks. wonder how much of an improvement that would be?
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thats what im going for. if i can move the brackets inward we also end up with the lighter rotor and the same clamping force as the F body even with the smaller lever of the "little" rotor.
id bet it'd be a good improvement, still might have to grind ribs off the caliper but it'd only be slightly heavier than the GA front caliper.... keep in mind we are likely going with the 15/16ths or 1" chrysler master since we have F body front brakes on both ends of the 442.

sorta think we shoulda ran GA fronts in our rear...
 
Turbocharged400sbc said:
oh for ****s sake i just told you they are the same 3 bolt pattern, the corvette rear hub bearings with the axle splines will bolt into our front knuckles, and if your looking for the 5x4.75 lug pattern instead of the 5 x 4.5 then you use the 4 bolt front wheel bearings from the F bodies (which would blt into your rear knuckle.

ive driven a full boogie compG build with gxp front and rear brakes and its stupid easy to lock em up and end up with the abs on and not stopping nearly as fast as a good threshold braking technique....kinda touchy without the gxp pedal/pushrod pivot point on the brake pedal arm.

i dont see why youd want the headache of that large of brakes aside from bragging rights

the Riv actually wrecked because the front brakes did lockup...even with 255 MT dr's (abs deleted)....not good at nearly 100mph

huge is awesome but not always better
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I don't want them so much for stopping power. More for weight reduction than anything else. Little bit of bragging rights... Mostly weight reduction. Anybody know how much a factory zr1 wheel weighs? Gonna make it all kind of pointless if the wheel is 30 lbs heavier than the 17 inch wheels I have now. Dezebe1 suggested I swap over the gxp brake pedal and everything too. I plan to do that at the same time I do the master cyl swap. Just took the brake pedal off of my spare parts gtp to see how much of a pain it was. Holy S*** could they make harder to get to!? Thank u for the clarification on the wheel bearings. I was confused about the rears. Gonna go see if I can find a couple at the junk yrd now. Rotor should b here Thursday. Cannot wait!
 
All you're going to do is lock em up and slide all over. You're also going to need tires sticky enough to transfer the braking force to the road. But hey if you threw 10k at your motor for only 260ish hp....then sure throw another 15k on brakes.
 


koRnhead said:
All you're going to do is lock em up and slide all over. You're also going to need tires sticky enough to transfer the braking force to the road. But hey if you threw 10k at your motor for only 260ish hp....then sure throw another 15k on brakes.
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Nailed it!!!!

No matter how impressive your brakes may be in slowing the wheels down, they will only work as well as your tires hold the road surface. This means that if you have tires that do not offer much friction, you will not stop in as short a distance as a tire better designed for the conditions. There is just no point to going beyond a 4 piston caliper on a street car and not sure I could justify it on a track car either. The reality is, if your braking system is good enough to lock your wheels or trigger the ABS system, you need only the proper fluid, good pads and SS lines to sustain it for stopping. The advantage for going that big is, you have an increased area in which to absorb/dissipate heat.
 
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You guys forgot this isn't a logic based mod he wants them for. It was for some sort of bragging right/show off
 
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