What oil filter should I use
- Thread starter Jonarin
- Start date
Only going to reply to you.
I work at FRAM as the technical director.
Our Extra Guard filter is 95.7% efficiency @ 20 microns, better FILTRATION than anything made by WIX. It is designed for up to 5k oil changes using conventional oil
The Tough Guard filter is 99% efficiency @ 20 microns, rated capacity is up to 10k oil change using premium semi synthetic or full synthetic oil
Both of those filters use an engineered fiber end cap, the EG has a Nitrile rubber antidrainback valve, the TG is silicone
At the top of the heap, The FRAM Ultra has a pleated stainless steel screen wrapped in two layers of full synthetic media, 99% efficiency@20 microns and the highest capacity of any oil filter in the market, rated for 15k oil changes when used with premium synthetic oil.
As far as the end cap slammers go, AC Delco uses filters made by us with felt end caps. All Honda and Subaru OE filters use fiber end caps, Bentley uses fiber end caps, Porsche and BMW are use felt end caps, Toyota uses OE filters with no end caps at all, they just weave the ends of the media together. Nissan uses fiber end caps in its OE filters. Can all those carmakers be wrong? Many filters quoted in this thread as being "better than FRAM" are in fact, made by FRAM, in ohio and illinois factories.
HighOctaneRacing
New member
First off fram still sucks. Your toughguard line is overpriced. Also the "higher" end frams media is so dense that several vehicles have a ticking on the top end which is oil starvation. Reputable shops use wix/napa filters for a reason. Wix makes several different grades of filters that are exclusive to napa due to their long partnership and fram cannot match the overall quality. If you want TRUE proof of how good your choice of filter is, send a quart of used oil to blackstone labs.
HighOctaneRacing
New member
Realistically it's your vehicle and your choice on what filter you prefer to use. I just choose to keep my engine in good running order and that's why I use wix.
Also don't be alarmed if techs ever tell you a used wix is better than a new fram
Also don't be alarmed if techs ever tell you a used wix is better than a new fram
02NavyBlue
New member
Everything he said about the Fram filters matches what I've believed all along. I do hate on the nitrile valve though. For a small piece like that silicone won't kill the company. Yeah, the fiber end caps are fairly strong under normal oil change intervals. I've tested many and it usually takes a bit of force to separate it from the filter media, not hard to do though. Is metal better? Probably. You get what you pay for, although the risks of fiber end caps failing is still fairly low.
I've also heard that even fram's extra guard filter media filters to a smaller micron rating(20) and/or to a higher percentage of efficiency than wix, being 21 microns. Even before his post. Purolator pureone has a micron rating of less than 5. That's a pretty dense filter so they recommend no more than 3k oil change intervals. I also use synthetic oil with that filter. If that seems too dense, use a pureone PL24011 which will fit a 3800 but is a longer canister (99 gmc jimmy filter) so there is more filter media for trapping particles.
One question I do have for motorking though, why is the filter media in the newer frams so unevenly spaced? Talking about the gaps between the pleats all around the filter, some spots are real dense, and others are very spaced out. I compared the same fram filter, one from 15 years ago and one from last year, the difference was easy to spot. The older fram's media was really nicely spaced all the way around.
I've also heard that even fram's extra guard filter media filters to a smaller micron rating(20) and/or to a higher percentage of efficiency than wix, being 21 microns. Even before his post. Purolator pureone has a micron rating of less than 5. That's a pretty dense filter so they recommend no more than 3k oil change intervals. I also use synthetic oil with that filter. If that seems too dense, use a pureone PL24011 which will fit a 3800 but is a longer canister (99 gmc jimmy filter) so there is more filter media for trapping particles.
One question I do have for motorking though, why is the filter media in the newer frams so unevenly spaced? Talking about the gaps between the pleats all around the filter, some spots are real dense, and others are very spaced out. I compared the same fram filter, one from 15 years ago and one from last year, the difference was easy to spot. The older fram's media was really nicely spaced all the way around.
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First off, all FRAM filters have a 1.5 psi pressure drop, that is our standard and will not make your lifters tick. And secondly, WIX efficiency at 20 microns is so bad they do not even publish it. Please by all means get your oil evaluated by Blackstone or Polaris using WIX and FRAM back to back. Publish your findings please. If WIX filters come out cleaner, I will buy you a steak dinner at your favorite place. The filters WIX makes for NAPA bypass so bad they are around 50% efficiency by their own admission, just read up on the WIX XP filter on bobistheoilguy.com. See for yourself. GM uses FRAM as OE, so does Ford and Honda and Subaru, guess you know more than they do huh?
Just stating the facts here.
Fiber end caps are being used by more and more automakers every day. They hold the glue that seals the ends of the media much better than a smooth piece of steel.
That said, internally we are discussing eliminating one of our filters and just putting silicone adbv's in all filters. As far as pleat spacing? We use a much higher quality of media so not as much is needed and it is difficult to space evenly. We do recognize that appearance is important and we are working on more even pleat sapcing though it has little to do with filter performance. BTW-The Pure1 oil filter is 99% @25 microns. Not sure where you get the 5 microns from. All filters will catch some particles at the 5 micron particle size, if they caught all of them at that size, it would be very restrictive.
That said, internally we are discussing eliminating one of our filters and just putting silicone adbv's in all filters. As far as pleat spacing? We use a much higher quality of media so not as much is needed and it is difficult to space evenly. We do recognize that appearance is important and we are working on more even pleat sapcing though it has little to do with filter performance. BTW-The Pure1 oil filter is 99% @25 microns. Not sure where you get the 5 microns from. All filters will catch some particles at the 5 micron particle size, if they caught all of them at that size, it would be very restrictive.
So your oil pressure suddenly drops to zero with a FRAM filter and just as quickly returns? Do you know what is inside an oil filter? Because if you do, I would like for you to give the forum members here a mechanical expplanation of how an oil filter can shut off oil flow and suddenly restore it. I run FRAM Ultra or racing filters on a 430ci SBF windsor, it has 25k on it, has gone through two Power Tours, runs 12 flat qtrs on street tires and still somehow running like a champ. Please tell me how that happened. What is the explanation? Was it magic or voodoo?
HighOctaneRacing
New member
Motorking, you're a rep. You gonna say fram is good. Maybe the technology fram uses is uncalibrated cause they suck. Also Napa has DIFFERENT filters made by wix and you are choosing the lowest one which is proselect. Go for the gold or platinum on. Fram just can't compete
Russosaur
Moderator
He also failed to mention those specs he posted were only tested from a handful of filters. Yet while that group covers ones for GPs, its something to think about. While they might be built all the same I'm not about to go test them all to verify.
"2 FRAM Group testing of average filter efficiency of PH8A, 3387A, and 4967 or equivalent FRAM TG or XG models under ISO 4548-12 for particles greater than 20 microns"
Sent from BFE
"2 FRAM Group testing of average filter efficiency of PH8A, 3387A, and 4967 or equivalent FRAM TG or XG models under ISO 4548-12 for particles greater than 20 microns"
Sent from BFE
theaceofspades
New member
That's why you dropped a valve lol jk
Russosaur
Moderator
Actually Wix ratings vary based upon filter so your whole efficiency idea about Wix is just right out the window. So for sake of argument the Wix filters for our cars #51040 has a beta rating of 2/20=6/20 so that would equal 50% efficiency at 6 microns and 95% efficiency at 20 microns. So literally as Kyle said...
Edit: I want to add, I'm not hating on FRAM. Its just to be expected being a FRAM employee you are obviously going to back up FRAM and spit out micron ratings all sorts of facts that literally nobody knows what they mean in order to sell a product. Get another employee from another brand and they will say the same thing posting similar facts about there products trying up 1 brand over the other again its all marketing and as like crazyguy said. Doing 3-5k OCI you could get away with any brand on the market and never have an issue. I change my oil rigorously every 3k using Valveoline 10w-30/5w-30 conventional (recently switching to there Synthetic Blend 5w-30 to give it a try) and using a Wix filter. Why? Well it hasn't let me down yet and doubt it ever will, my trust is in this brand so they are keeping my business until they let me down. Might I be overpaying when cheaper products are available that do the same thing? Sure, I know if I couldn't get my Wix I would go Purolator.
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CrazyGuy03
Active member
If everyone would just change their oil on time , no worries then.....
If it makes you feel better reading countless pages about surface area and pleats then enjoy this
http://www.minimopar.net//oilfilters/reference.html
If it makes you feel better reading countless pages about surface area and pleats then enjoy this
http://www.minimopar.net//oilfilters/reference.html
Bronco Boy
Donating Users
^ This!
I've sold hundreds of thousands of Fram filters over my career. Not one customer complained (other than the price) and no reported issues.
Every brand of filters has had failure's.