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How to tell the difference between a 3800 Series II and Series III engine/ L67 vs L32

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DoUEvenShift NoBroItsAuto

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Quite a few months ago I was driving when my engine started knocking in my 2000 Grand Prix GTP. I was forced to pull over to the side of the road as the engine began to lose power. I tried starting it again and nothing, so I called AAA and they had it towed to a mechanics shop here in town. After inspecting the engine the mechanic let me know that the engine was "dead" (I don't think he used that exact word)....so I would need to replace it. I told him to do it, and after a week or so I went back to go pick it up. When I went to pick it up he let me know he couldn't get another engine from my generation so he went with the next one up (so it should of a been a Supercharged 3800 Series III [L32], but I didn't know that at the time) and that all he had to do was modify the oil pan. Within a couple of weeks that engine ended up failing on me as well, same thing happened, started knocking and then lost power. So I took it back and he replaced the engine once again, I asked him what engine he put in it this time around and all he said was, "The same one." I believed him at the point so I took the car and went on with my life. Well now that I'm doing some more research on the Grand Prix I'm realizing that the first time he put the "new" engine in it that the engine cover actually said "Series II" and even after putting the second "new" engine in it that it still has a series II engine cover on it. So either he didn't put a Series III engine in it or he just put on my original Series II engine cover on the Series III. I don't know how to tell the difference between the two with the exception of the engine cover, which doesn't help in my situation. Is there a visual distinction between the two motors? Or where can I find an engine identification code?

Thanks in advance for any help/advice.
 


The engine cover is just a cover and tells you nothing. Even if he replaced the engine with a series III, he probably didn't replace the engine cover...

The L67 has a gen 3 5 rib supercharger and the L32 has a gen V 7 rib supercharger.

Both series II and III blocks are stamped, however a lot of series III engines use series II stamped blocks.

If it has black valve covers, it is most likely an L32 (although not all L32s had black valve covers).
 
How to tell the difference between a 3800 Series II and Series III engine/ L6...

Likely any engine from a junk yard did not include the supercharger or the engine cover. So you can not judge by that. A series 3 supercharger (L32) would not let you bolt your throttle body up with out a $100 adapter ordered from a performance shop and he would have had to put your old fuel Rails back on.

That being said there is no easy quick way to tell what was put in. He most likely bolted your old supercharger and fuel rails to what ever was delivered.

He had to get a supercharged motor (heads different than normally aspirated) but L32 motors are over $1000 for ones with 100,000 miles. Chances are it's a high mileage L67.
 
Where would the engine stamp be located on a 3800? And it doesn't have black valve covers... Supposedly the first engine he ordered was only supposed to have around "50,000" miles on it, I have no idea how many miles were on the second one. He charged me five grand to install the engine (parts+labor) so it better not have been a cheap high mileage motor. But you never know with these hole in the wall mechanic shops. So am I pretty much out of luck on how to figure out what parts I have? Do you guys recommend I try to find somebody with knowledge about these engines and ask them? I only want to know because I would like to modify the car later on. So It would be helpful if I really knew what was under my hood.
 
5 grand for a used engine swap? do you not know about getting estimates? i hope the second engine swap was on the house cause he made enough off you to do 4 of them.

used engine costs around 5 to 800. the labor for a swap is around 500 with fluids. unless they are flat out thieves.

theres no way to tell what block you got. unless you saw the engine before they put it in and you saw it had a gen 5 blower on it.

the engine cover is your old one if you had one.
 


Sounds like the first go around he just dropped the pan and rolled a new bearing in without doing anymore work hoping it would hold up for a few months.
I hope you get it straightened out. People like him give the rest of us a bad rep.
And he REALLY took you for a ride on that cost! Wow, you could have bought a Gm crate engine and had a Stealership install it for less than that! Good luck with it man, hope it all works out.
BTW, you could get the engine casting # and date code off the block and run them by a dealership parts department and they could probably narrow the engine down to -/+ 1yr.

Sent from Not so smart smartphone
 
Scottydoggs said:
5 grand for a used engine swap? do you not know about getting estimates? i hope the second engine swap was on the house cause he made enough off you to do 4 of them.

used engine costs around 5 to 800. the labor for a swap is around 500 with fluids. unless they are flat out thieves.

theres no way to tell what block you got. unless you saw the engine before they put it in and you saw it had a gen 5 blower on it.

the engine cover is your old one if you had one.
Click to expand...


R and R is not 5 hours of labor lol.

Think like 10-12 total, plus the motor and fluids. I bet the avg price is roughly 2500-3000 at most shops depending on miles on motor and cost of the engine.

Shoot, we a 05 alitma with the 3.5 VQ motor for 3,100ish.

But in the end he kinda got shafted on the price by atleast 1500 buck.
 
shops that charge that much didn't want the job in the first place.

around here i can get a engine swapped for 5 to 600 tops just the labor and fluids. you need to look for the shop that has the engine hoist outside all the time and old engines piled up outside. thats the shop that wont rob you blind.
 
Even at $10-12/hr that's only $500-600 around here. Normal shop rates here are around $45/hr.

I charge $400 for labor on older fwd engine swaps. Used engines around here can be had for around the $150-300 range. There's no way an engine swap should cost 2-3K unless the customer is getting a reman engine and even then its that's a steep price. Hell if I charged a customer 2K for an engine swap I'd probably have a used vehicle forsale! Lol

Damn I need to move up north so I can make more money!

Sent from Not so smart smartphone
 
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I live in a area with 4 dealerships and roughly 20-30 repair shops in 10-15 mile circle, you won't find a shop that charges "cheap" labor. It's 90-100 bucks an hour, most dealerships are 90-95 an hour. Parts become cheaper though because of all the business but for a motor swap it's never cheap. And 2-3k for a R&R of a engine is a good deal, plus you get a warranty with my work anyway.

Also figure a motor can cost say 500 bucks to any joe blow on the streets, but a shop needs to mark it up to gain money off the part and most customers have no real clue what a engine cost or even how they run in general.
 
I guess things just work differently the farther north we go... There's not a shop or dealership within 50-60 miles of me that I've heard of that charges anywhere near $100/hr.


Sent from Not so smart smartphone
 
Twizted 1 said:
BTW, you could get the engine casting # and date code off the block and run them by a dealership parts department and they could probably narrow the engine down to -/+ 1yr.
Click to expand...

Where can I locate the engine casting number?

I didn't know how badly I got screwed until hearing from you guys...Anyways, thanks for the tips guys. Opened up my eyes quite a bit on the subject of getting an engine swapped out at a mechanics shop as well.
 
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