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Injector help/Look at my tune

B

blackgrandprix

New member
hey guys/gals I just put 60 pound injectors in my 05 grand prix. (s1x cam + 3.2 + every thing else ). I am running pig rich at wot 9.5-10.5. I try and subtract 3-5 % in fuel from mas but dose not change much. this is what my IFR is currently set to ifr.jpg i am using hp tuner (im new to) and ngk afr. any help would be great thanks (I have seen the charts out there but do no fully understand.)
.

this is a like to my current tune if you want to have a look. Thanks

sept2021timing.hpt - Speedy Share - upload your files here
 


Have you adj your fuel injector tables at all? You seem to be adding more than my 42's. Have you looked up any 60# injector tables then adj your flow rates to make up for the change your car has now? I haven't done any adj for 60# injectors but I know several on here have and they probably have some tables for you to plug in and make it a bit better. I know Reptile runs 60# injectors. BillBoost might have tables for you as well. That's who I got my 42# injector tables from and since I made those adj things have been alot better with my fuel econ as well.

Flow vs KPA then Offset vs volts needs adj most likely.

What's your Base AFR vs ECT table look like. That's where you set your AFR.

Are you on HP Tuners forum at all? HP Tuners Bulletin Board

If not register there are lot of helpful folks on there too! I've learned alot on there.
 
^ is correct. you can not just add fuel to the MAF and get it to be rich or leaner. as the trims will just put things back the way they were. you need to command more or less fuel.
 
So basically you put in your injectors and just hoped they worked and you would be ok?!?! Ya... You need to adj your pcm to command less fuel. Those 60# ers put out way more than your stockers. You need to go find the tables that need applied like i mentioned above. Then go drive your car for 15-25 min while scanning and adj your maf. Your fuel trims are probably way the f off right now. Also why are you so lean on your AFR vs ECT. That's not gonna make one hoot of diff until you get the right injector tables applied. IE under Flow vs KPA then Offset vs volts.

Go look under engine then fuel my friend. Or what brand of 60# injectors do you have. Maybe I can do some googling for you and try to find the tables. Have you made an acct on HP Tuners forum yet or even tried to find the tables for your injectors?
 


rynoman03 said:
So basically you put in your injectors and just hoped they worked and you would be ok?!?! Ya... You need to adj your pcm to command less fuel. Those 60# ers put out way more than your stockers. You need to go find the tables that need applied like i mentioned above. Then go drive your car for 15-25 min while scanning and adj your maf. Your fuel trims are probably way the f off right now. Also why are you so lean on your AFR vs ECT. That's not gonna make one hoot of diff until you get the right injector tables applied. IE under Flow vs KPA then Offset vs volts.

Go look under engine then fuel my friend. Or what brand of 60# injectors do you have. Maybe I can do some googling for you and try to find the tables. Have you made an acct on HP Tuners forum yet or even tried to find the tables for your injectors?
Click to expand...

You sound mad at the guy... And you're giving him poor info.
Blackgp, all you need is to get your IFR (injector flow rate) right then put your other fueling tables back to stock and you'll be all set to tune from there. Don't touch your stock MAF table. You will likely do more harm than good.
 
2003 SSEi said:
WHAT???

Put in the 60LB IFR table, and then use the wideband to tune the MAF. This is how i have done every 3800, and i get the AFR spot on
Click to expand...

Every professional in the business uses a stock MAF table for your specific MAF sensor.
It's an interesting phenomenon that people with basically stock setups tune their MAF curves.
As long as the injector flow rate is correct there will be no need to tune the MAF.
 
LOL

Guess the Professionals missed this then
How to tune in your fuel trims with HPTuners | ZZP News

http://www.trafficjams.ca/Performance/TuningDocs/MAFTune.htm

http://www.turbov6camaro.com/maf.htm

http://www.fullthrottlev6.com/forums/faq.php?faq=pcm_garys_tuning

In our test case, the Mass Air Flow sensor is causing the rich condition, denoted by all of the negative LTFT's. We already KNOW FOR SURE that the VE table is correct, after all it is the backup to the MAF. What we need to do now is re-calibrate the MAF table using these values. Lets take for example cell number 3200 X .8 which has a value of 17. In our scans in SD Mode we have a value of -1. What is the difference in %? Good question! There is no equation that will accurately calculate it. We know that this vehicle is running rich. We know that by reducing the MAF table (called scaling it) we will cause the MAF to be Calibrated to the right values. The trick is to discover where the MAF curve needs to be set at. This is a painful process, but there is currently no other way. It is very obvious that we are running rich in this example, by a pretty steady amount right? Well, lets look at the MAF table breakdown, and decide what we need to do.
Click to expand...

Our cars dont use VE like other PCM/ECM's
 
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Phil99gp said:
Every professional in the business uses a stock MAF table for your specific MAF sensor.
It's an interesting phenomenon that people with basically stock setups tune their MAF curves.
As long as the injector flow rate is correct there will be no need to tune the MAF.
Click to expand...

Are you trolling from clubgp.?

Lol .....no you use a stock maf table as a starting point sure but the stock maf table is far from being accurate for each car and its upgrades. I can't think of why you wouldn't want to use all tools available to you to accurately tune your vehicle.
 
2003 SSEi said:
I should say SOME of the 3800's dont use the VE. The Other PCM's like your GXP do use it
Click to expand...

You're referring to "virtual" ve? I only ask case I've never seen a 3800 file without and yea I'm tracking for the v8 05-06 but 07 and later use the virtual ve deal too.
 
2003 SSEi said:
LOL

Guess the Professionals missed this then
How to tune in your fuel trims with HPTuners | ZZP News

http://www.trafficjams.ca/Performance/TuningDocs/MAFTune.htm

MAF

Gary's Newbie Guide to Tuning Basics V 1.2(56k Beware)
Click to expand...

1. ZZP is talking about changing values if your trims are way off using MAF adjustments. They shouldn't be off if you have the correct IFR tables. If you've tuned 'many cars' you would know that finding the proper injector flow rate is the #1 priority in tuning your fuel. MAF adjustments are almost never necessary to attain proper fueling.

2. So a self proclaimed 'hobbyist' is more qualified to tune cars than professionals? Any shop you go to for a tune isn't going to mess with your MAF, unless you specifically need a MAF table from another sensor, like if you swapped from an L67 MAF to an 85mm MAF.

3. This guy is explaining how to scale the MAF in HPT. We use AFC's. If you run a 10% skew, you scale your stock MAF curve 10%. This is not at all relevant to this thread.

4. Gary's tuning guide is a joke. It has caused more misinformation in the 3800 community than any other 'article' save for maybe the 'modding your 3800' topic on this forum.

Please come back and talk when you have solid proof that the OP in this thread needs a MAF tune. Because I can guarantee you that he doesn't. It's clear by what he posted that his IFR tables are way out of whack and he needs to set those straight.
 


Phil99gp said:
You sound mad at the guy... And you're giving him poor info.
Blackgp, all you need is to get your IFR (injector flow rate) right then put your other fueling tables back to stock and you'll be all set to tune from there. Don't touch your stock MAF table. You will likely do more harm than good.
Click to expand...

Not mad, just saying you gotta change stuff in your pcm to run bigger injectors. It just sounds like he put them in and ran with it then wondered why he was rich. I tune my MAF as do others. If you want to leave yours stock than that is your choice. I didn't think that I gave him any false or poor info. :confused:
 
If you guys would have read or even looked at things you would have noticed the IFR has been changed and the afr vs ect has also been changed. I'm confused with off set vs volts. And to find the IFR I used stock injector divide ide by new , and then multiplied stock IFR by the number. So i should not change Maf just the IFR table to get afr close then just very fine tune from Maf ??
 
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